Now the water pump..... groan

[Andy Illes]

Ok guys, idiot Florida Boy didn't have enough antifreeze in the engine for NY weather......  killed the water pump (didn't notice I wound up with that new "pre-diluted" crap to save a buck.... duh!!).

According to my trusty Chilton book, the radiator has to be completely removed.  Eyeballing it though, it looks like if I just drop it to the ground I'd have enough space to get at the pump.  Whaddaya all think?   Anybody done it?

Mucho gracies

[bigray]

I've done it on mine twice. I have a Chevy though. I had to remove the radiator and shrod. My smog pump and alternator share a mounting screw with the water pump. I had to remove the bolts on the smog pump and let it hang to remove the water pump.

Again, mine is a Chevy but when I initially looked at it, it didn't appear that I had to do all that.

Make sure you get a heavy duty water pump. Good Luck!!

PS, Fella you better make sure you use one of those little antifreeze checking devices to check to see what tempearture you can withstand. They are a couple of bucks. I have them in all my cars.

[Andy Illes]

Thanks Ray, but I need to hear from onna the (preferably 360) Dodge folks.  I don't really have any practical way to jack the thing up to completely remove the radiator (only bumper-to-bumper street parking up here).... which is why I'm asking if just dropping it to the ground would give enough room to work.  Otherwise it's gonna be a MAJOR headache.  Also, I'd like to hear QUICKLY... it's supposed to get to nearly 60 on Thursday.... then back to the basement with sleet, etc.

I already got a pump... an aluminum racing jobbie that flows 50% more than OEM ($43 for new, including some funky-looking special high-flow 190 thermostat... not bad).  Ironically, I do have a hygrometer, I just didn't use it.  I got 2 gallons of that diluted crap (without realizing it was dilute  :? ) and just sortta figured that oughtta about do it.  Duh!!  I knew from the Colorado trip that 2 gallons (of full strength) is good for anything short of the icy stare you get when you tell your lady those jeans really DO make her look fat (roughly, absolute zero).

BTW... while I was under the thing hunting for the leak, I heard a "pop" up around the battery, and smelled trouble.  Guess what?!?  The brand new coach battery relay fried!!!  Dave.... wanna swap Clips???  I think spooking garbage-toting neighbors would be more fun.  Sigh.

[aliendude]

To get to the water pump on the 360,  you can remove the front bumper and the radiator side plates, and radiator -- out thru the front......
Plastic shroud.....various washer resevour.....disconnect the front turn signals and plastic facia........
One all that is off, its not that bad.....
There are like some bolts that support a smog pump on the lower right, and there may be bolts for a A/C mounting plate on the top.....
Or the upper left bolt may be for alternator mount.....
Have several thick washers in case you decide to delete any of the mounting plates......be carefull about bolt length when you re-install.  

Do NOT crack your timing chain cover off the block unless you plan to get in there to replace the gasket under it - as the water passes thru it from the block......or it may leak on you.   If you leave the harmonic damper on and the smaller lower bolts for the timing chain cover it should be ok.  

Might as well replace the tiny L shaped rubber hose in there on the intake.
There are several different alternator mounts.....a/c bracket plate, triangle plate, or bolts and 3 in spacer dowel to the left head.    

Carefull of flex fan blades they'll cut you up good, even not running....

TIP - leave one lower radiator bolt in place loose, and leave the radiator hanging on it on the other side, as you loosen the other side....then lift out and up.  

ALso you have to remove the upper radiator support, and hood hinge....leave it dangling.......

Coat hanger the P/S pump off to the side or smog pump if it has to be removed..........may be able to get water pump out from under the braket for it...........depends if you have an upper
p/s pump or a lower no SMOG pump mount.......

It's not hard once you get in there..... soak your bumper mount bolts with
CPC gun cleaner and the radiator side plates bolts.......

No Jacking should be required at all.......but a 3in lift on the front of it
with two 10ton jackstands makes it setting stool work high.  

( I should have put a new water pump in mine....... but couldn't afford it when I put in my motor. )

OH yeah.......if you have those aluminum water pump fan spacers.... they
are magic.    you can tap on them...and they will not come off..but the
next day they pull of by hand......after soaking with CPC breakFree.

Be carefull of the timing plate covers bolts on either side about 1/2 way up...they like to break off into the block.  

Some things I know..... :wink:

[Conrad]

I have done it and I have the 76, dodge 360, same as you.  I recommend taking off the front bumper, grill, tranny cooler if you have one, shroud and then the fan, fan clutch... No jack needed, all the space you will ever need to do the pump replacement.  

I have 88,000 miles on mine so I replaced my timing chain and gears as well.  Lets's see what else did I do?   Oh yeah, I had an oil leak from the frong of the oil pan.  Oil would sling up from the front crankshaft seal.  I replace it and no more leak up front.  Now the rear main seal is a different story...

I used a standard replacement pump, nothing special.  I replaced my original 3 core radiator with a 4 core unit.  I did not replace the tranny cooler as I want to find out how it perfroms when climbing a pass.  Havent' done that yet....  So I still keep an eye on it.  I replaced the fan clutch too.  That made a big difference in the noise level, I didn't realize that the old clutch was fried.  The old one would turn by hand but it was real hard to turn.  The new one can turn with just two fingers moving it.  I didn't have a reference before, now I do.

One thing though, Ever since I made the change out, I have had trouble with my power steering pump belt.  Seems I must have left something out when I replaced it.  I lose belts really often.  I figure that it must be the alignment.  When I hear the noise I check the belt and there it is... stretched!  You can see the parts of the belt that have stretched and the parts that haven't.  It looks like a loose belt when observed while engine running.  I could use some advice on that.

btw,  I did take pictures when I didn the job.  I would have to dig around for them if you are interested.

[aliendude]

Do you have the upper Power steering pump....or the lower one with a smog pump....?  

I still have to work on all that on my clipper...my power steering pump
is really crooked.....missing a correct rear bracket....for a lower type installation.   It works - for now........I'm sure it will throw it later.

I have the upper brackets to put it back like it originally was - from a
salvage yard.   Maybe then I could turn the front wheels if not moving.
As it is, I have to be moving or it will slip the belt.    I read this is a
common problem.  

I don't have a fan clutch on mine........just a flex fan.  

Again, did not do all this stuff...........  and have limited funds to put stuff back as it was.   Still have not found an original air cleaner with snorckel and mainfold hot air tin.  

Have not worked on My Clipper much this week.   No money =
No gas to drive it around front, to an electrical outlet/extension cord.  
It doesn't like cold, and has to warm up.....which is
Why I'm looking for the heated air intake, off and on.

[bigray]

Mercy Mercy, I'm glad I have a Chevy. I can practically take everything off the front of my engine just by removing the radiator. In fact, I did when I change a bad harmonic balancer.

I don't envy and but wish you luck! As my brother told me, just go ahead and take your fist and hit a wall or floor. That way you'll have busted knuckles before you start and that will mitigate the pain.

[Andy Illes]

Dave and Conrad.... thanks a million - that's exactly the kindda info I was looking (and hoping) for...  I can get the front off no prob.  The neighbors might wonder about the all the parts on the curb is all, lol.

I did also get a new (double-row) timing chain/sprockets, along with a new harmonic balancer and front seal - and a few cans of engine degreaser (The tab for all of it was $148.75).  Figured while I was at it, might as well do those too.  My mileage is about the same as yours Conrad - never mind the almost 30 years - so it's just a few less things to worry about down the road.

BTW... the balancer I got has really cool timing marks on it.... looks like an aluminum or stainless strip bonded to it with etched/painted marks in 1* increments from 20 ATDC to 35 BTDC on it, and it came with an adjustable little stainless steel pointer that crimps over the OEM one so you can set a dead-accurate TDC.

Sure wish it stayed light longer... the one warm day this week's gonna be pretty short for all this.  Oh well.

Again, thanks for the info guys.... as always, y'all are great!!!

[Conrad]

I envy you southerners.  More daylight more often.  I have my rig winterized now.  We are expecting more snow in our region.  The snow hasn't made its way south to my location for any length of time.  Had a trace on the deck Sunday morning but that was it.  I have a dead Mazda in my garage that needs attention but it is just too cold for me to make a reasonable effort.  Retirement is only 5 1/2 years away!!!!!  We can be snowbirds then...

[Andy Illes]

I'll ice down some beer for when y'all visit.....  

[bigray]

I'll provide the cigars!!!!!!

[Andy Illes]

Progress report.  For those facing this, I'll detail.

Not sure why you took your bumper off Dave.... like Conrad said, all I hadda remove was the grille (4 screws on top, 2 bottom.. and 2 each for the parking lights - the headlights stay), water hoses and tranny cooler lines from the radiator, unsnap the shroud from the radiator (leave it on for now), and take out the 4 radiator and 4 AC thing bolts.  You can just drop the radiator to the ground then (or lift it out... I was lazy).  With that down, like you guys said, there's plenty of room.  Before realizing that's all I hadda do, I did also take out the cross-support (where the hood latch is) and all the stuff attached to that, and the battery.  Oh well.... it does give a little extra working room with it out anyway.  After that, just hadda take all the different mounting plate/bracket bolts out.  Anyway, that's about when I ran outta light and warm fingers, but at least it's ready to get at the pump, balancer and timing cover now.  I didn't get started until about 2, so it was about a 3 hour job so far.  

After the rain stops today, I'll brave freezing and get the water pump, harmonic balancer and timing cover off... and start replacing stuff.

Again, thanks for the help guys.

[aliendude]

I took the bumper off cause I was pulling my engine out the front, and
it was just in the way of getting in there to shift the motor around.
I only got my bumper on with like 4 top bolts that I anti-siezed lubed...
so it comes off pretty easy now.   I'm sure I'll have get back in there again to change around brackets for my smog pump and power steering
later.  

Now that I got my battery isolator working, my alt has such a load after start up, that it's belt is slipping on start up.  
ALas, the plague of taking the double belts a/c compressor off an LA
small block.  I new I should have left the dead a/c compressor......
"oh no....it's just in the way........"

[Andy Illes]

Sounds like your coach battery's really discharged Dave.  Top it off with a regular charger.... the alternator's not really made to handle a full recharge, just to keep it topped off.  If your coach battery is charged, then you have a short somewhere between the relayand coach battery.

Next time you have to get in there, like you plan, it's comforting to know all you have to do is drop the radiator, huh?  If I hadda do it again, I think it'd be out in about a half hour.

It's still raining so I took the morning to polish the headlight bezels... scrub, scrape and repaint the grille body-color.  Looks pretty good... like new.  I'm curious though -- were the grilles originally body-color or black... anyone know?  It's black under the flaking body paint, is why I'm asking.

[aliendude]

My '75 has a black plastic grill with silver accent paint on the highpoints.