Buying a 45 year old motorhome.... am I crazy?

[blackheart]

I really like the American Clipper.  I am not an owner - but want to be one!!  However, after diving head first into research, making contacts, seeing one locally (ship wreck...) and planning a trip to see another one... my wife lowers the BOOM....
Her fear is that I will get a 45 year old motorhome and it won't be dependable, kill me with maintenance costs and just be another project for us/me to do....
My question for the group is - does anyone actively use their Clipper for long (more than 500 mile) trips?  I would love to hear. 
My goal is to have a rig that will make the trip from Portland Oregon to Dickenson ND at least a couple times a year - with stops in between. 
Any thoughts from the group on a properly maintained (possibly rebuilt) 45 year old RV being reliable enough to make a 2500 mile trip without leaving you stranded? 

Or should I just get a travel trailer like the wife wants?     Thanks!!!

[Toedtoes]

I haven't traveled long distances in my clipper, so I can't answer specifically to that.

However, I can say that regardless of the RV you buy, you WILL have maintenance costs and work.  Every RV will need tires, batteries, etc.  Every RV will need regular re-sealing.  Every RV will need repair work done.

The main difference is WHEN you put in the work and money.

First, if you are looking for a fiberglass egg trailer (casita, escape, oliver, etc), they are hard to find used.  New, they will run you between $25,000 to $45,000 depending on model and options.  If you do find used, they will be fairly high priced in comparison to other brands.

If you need to buy a tow vehicle, you're looking at another $30,000+ (depending on used vs new).

So right off the bat, the trailer will run you $25,000-$75,000.  Compared to $5,000 - 10,000 max for a clipper.

With the trailer, you will have new batteries, new tires, etc., so you will not have any standard maintenance expenses for the first 3-5 years.

With the clipper, you may need to replace batteries and tires right away.  That's between $80 - $300 for batteries depending on what you get, and about $1,200 - $1,400 for all 7 tires.

Regarding tires, the general consensus is to replace trailer tires every 5-7 years and motorhome tires every 7-10 years.  By default, RVs sit for long periods of time and the tire rubber deteriorates - they may look good, have all their tread, etc, but once you start driving, the heat of the road, etc, causes the tires to split.  And a blown tire on an RV can cause a ton of expensive damage to water tanks, etc.

With the clipper, you may need to put work into the engine, etc.  I spent about $8,000 to have my engine rebuilt and the new 4br carb installed - that was about 2016.  In hindsight, I wish I had simply rebuilt the engine when I first got the clipper - it would have eliminated a lot of little minor issues.

With the clipper, you will want to replace rubber first thing - fuel lines, belts, hoses, etc, if it has not been done by the current owner.  A few bucks doing that now will save a lot of headache later on. 

If appliances don't work, you can spend $100 - $1,000 repairing or replacing any one of them.  A new fridge would be most expensive at $1,000 or more.  It is also a hassle installing.  A new water heater will run $600 or so installed.  However, if cared for, they don't often break down.  So if you make sure they are working properly before buying, they will likely be fine.  IF any seller of ANY RV won't let you test each appliance, you can safely assume it does not work - no matter their reason.

However, a 5-10 year old trailer will have the same odds of an appliance not working as a 42-48 year old clipper. So, you only escape that chance by buying new.

Engine wise, the trailer beats out the clipper.  However, if you have to buy a tow vehicle, you will still have that second engine to maintain - although it will be newer.  You will also have four more tires to maintain - and if the tow vehicle is only used for towing, you will want to follow the same replacement schedule as with a motorhome.

Both will cost for personalization.  The clipper interior may not be as new, but let's face it RV interiors are ugly and you WILL put money into curtains, etc.

After 5 years, both the trailer and the clipper will require the same level of standard maintenance for the house.  Repairs to the house can be handled by the same shops and will cost the same.  Replacing a fridge in a trailer will be the same as replacing a fridge in the clipper, etc.

Engine/chassis-wise, the clipper will be more difficult to find a repair shop, and a mechanic who can work on the old engines, than a tow vehicle will.  This can be minimized if you are familiar with and comfortable doing your own work.  For me, this has been my biggest challenge as I am not into doing auto work. 

However, I will say that during a trip to the Rockies, my boss' Mercedes sprinter broke down.  Rather than take it to a shop, he texted me and had me locate the part. He then ordered it and had it delivered and did the repair himself.  So, if you are going to do your own repairs regardless, this is less of a negative on the clipper.

[Toedtoes]

Hopefully that gives you some things to consider regarding costs, upkeep, and time.

Now, I will address the difference between camping/driving in a trailer vs the clipper.  I currectly have both a trailer and a clipper, so I have experienced these differences first hand...

With a trailer, you can drop the trailer off at camp and drive around with just the tow vehicle.  If you want to drive to a great fishing hole and the wife wants to take a nap, you can do so easily.  With the clipper, your wife would need to go with you to the fishing hole in order to nap inside.

With a trailer, this also means that you can "spread out" your stuff.  With the clipper, you want to make sure things are put away before you take a quick trip to the store.  I find it is easier to just always keep things put away so I don't have to spend 20 minutes cleaning up so I can take a 5 minute drive to get ice, etc.

Very few small trailers come with an oven. The clipper has an oven.  To me, this is probably my biggest regret - not being able to make chocolate chip cookies on a cold night to go with my hot chocolate. 

With the clipper, when you are on the road, you can easily access drinks, snacks, and the BATHROOM.  I have been stopped for construction and simply put the clipper in park to get a drink, snack or use the bathroom.  With a trailer, this is much less convenient.  You need to bring an ice chest in the tow vehicle or get out of the vehicle, enter the trailer, get your drink/snack, exit the trailer, and get back in the tow vehicle.  The bathroom is likewise less convenient.   

With the trailer, pulling over can be problematic.  Most tow vehicles will be at least 10ft long and the trailer will be anywhere from 15ft up.  My current setup is a 16 ft Durango with a 16 ft trailer (12 ft box).  That's 32 ft total.  My clipper is 20.5 ft.  That 12 ft makes a lot of difference.  The clipper can park in a single parking space if there is room to hang over the back end. The Durango and trailer always require two parking spaces.  This is most obvious at scenic overlooks, etc.  It also can make fueling up more difficult.

The clipper will have more storage than a small trailer.  My clipper has 8 kitchen drawers, a full height pantry, a full height closet, 2 smaller cupboards, 2 large cupboards with three openings each, 2 bathroom cupboards, and an entry cupboard.  Because it does not have a built in generator, it also has a large exterior cupboard that can hold hoses, camp chairs, camp tables, etc.  Most small trailers have a half height closet, 4-5 kitchen drawers, 2-4 cupboards, and a smaller exterior compartment.  In addition, they rarely have any storage in the bathroom.

For me, when I use my clipper, everything has a place.  With my trailer, my camp chairs get stored in the bathroom (bringing the dirt with them), I have to move stuff off the bed to go to sleep, and so on.  I actually just ended up buying a roof rack storage to carry those chairs, etc, just so I can access the bathroom easier.

With the clipper, you can have a dedicated bed (cabover) AND a dinette AND a couch.  With a small trailer, you have to give up one of those.  Or go bigger (and the fiberglass egg trailers don't get very big).

The clipper has a 40 gallon fresh water tank, a 20 gallon grey tank, and a 20 gallon black tank.  For me camping alone and not being conservative, that lasts me 14-16 days (using the toilet exclusively, no showers).  A small trailer usually has a 20 gallon fresh water tank.  Depending on the model, you may only have a grey tank (usually 10-20 gallons) and a cassette toilet OR a 10 gallon black tank.  This means you will need to dump more often and refill your fresh water more often.

My trailer has a 20 gallon fresh water tank, a 20 gallon grey tank and a cassette toilet.  I can go about 4-5 days before refilling/dumping.  To counter this, I carry four 2.5 gallon water jugs and a 6 gallon grey water tote - all which take up more space in the trailer or vehicle.

In both a small trailer and the clipper, the shower stall is small.  Most folks prefer using the campground showers when possible (and if clean).  The clipper bathroom is a "dry bath" - meaning the shower stall is separate from the toilet and sink.  It also has a bathroom sink.  Small trailers usually have a "wet bath" - meaning the toilet is placed on the shower floor (so if you are showering, the toilet gets wet). That also means that if you are in the shower, your wife cannot use the toilet and visa versa.  Many small trailers do not have a bathroom sink - in that case, you are sharing the kitchen sink for teeth brushing and breakfast prep.  The bathroom setup in small trailers also affects makeup application, shaving, etc.

With newer RVs, they often have electric appliances.  The clipper original appliances are all propane powered.  The clipper fridge is 3-way (propane, 120v, and 12v).  In addition, even when running on propane, newer fridges still use electric power to run their electronics - the old fridges don't use any electricity when running on propane.   Most newer RVs have 2-way (propane and 120v) or 120v only.  The clipper water heater is propane only.  Most newer RVs have 2-way.

You can find clippers with built in generators.  Small trailers won't have that option.

The clipper has a 40lb fixed propane tank.  This means you have to drive the clipper to a propane dealer to fill up.  Trailers utilize 20lb portable tanks so you can remove the tank and refill or exchange.

That's all I can think of at the moment, but I'm sure it's enough for you and your wife to discuss and weigh.

[blackheart]

Oh My - more than enough.  My wife wants a trailer.... I want a small motorhome (clipper) - for exactly all the reasons you brought up.  The ONLY reason I see that the trailer would be a convenience is once you get to a place you don't need to 'pack up' everything if you need to make a quick trip to the store.  I get that.... but getting to the spot and coming back from the spot, and then parking at home - all seem to be so much easier with a shorter motorhome.  Even at home, we would have one vehicle that could move the trailer.  IF that vehicle is gone, or out for repair - the trailer is stuck as well.  Where the clipper could actually (in a pinch) be used as another vehicle - or at least moved on its own.  And even tow a trailer if needed....   
I'm still leaning heavily towards the clipper.  Dedicated bed, dinette that doesn't need to be broken down to get some sleep.  A shower and toilet.... everything just points me to a clipper....   Now - where can I find one that will be ready to go to North Dakota in time    ;-)    hint hint....

[Toedtoes]

That was all why I got the clipper in the first place. 

I started with a 20ft trailer.  I hated towing it - it made short weekend trips more work.  It was more difficult to pull over on the side of the road to stop at a shop or restaurant, etc.

The clipper had the same amount of interior room as the 20ft trailer, but cut the overall driving length in half.

I drove it to work on many occasions.  My SUV was in the shop, I was going camping right after work, we wanted to have a pancake breakfast.  Every time we had an employee picnic, I took my clipper.  I'd park it at the picnic location and everyone would bring their contributions for lunch over to put in the fridge.  I was able to heat up dishes as needed right before serving, I had all the serving dishes and utensils needed, we didn't need buckets of ice for the cold drinks, we were able to clean up at the sink, and so on.  As our picnic area was across the road from the office, this was very convenient.

One thing I have noticed between driving the 20ft trailer, the clipper, and the folding trailer is other drivers.  With the 20ft trailer, I had drivers routinely try to merge lanes right between my suv and trailer - it was like they couldn't tell that it was a trailer being towed versus a motorhome.  With the clipper, that problem is completely eliminated.  With the folding trailer, I see some but not many as most folks can easily identify it as a trailer.

One thing I forgot to mention before on differences:

With the clipper, if you have to take it to a shop while on the road, you lose both your house AND your vehicle.

With a trailer, if the tow vehicle breaks down, you can have your trailer towed to an RV park while the vehicle is repaired.  If the trailer needs to go in the shop, you still have your tow vehicle to get around.

Sorry I got sidetracked last weekend.  I'm aiming to finish cleaning out this weekend if the weather settles down.

[blackheart]

All great PRO Clipper reasons....  The one CON I didn't think about is if the Clipper breaks down while on a trip, you are out of 'house and home'.   But bc of all of the things you listed as PRO's, I think that they far outweigh the trailer....   Of course, this is me with NO RV or Trailer experience in Camping.  My only camping has been tent based.  Now that I'm in my 50's - me and the ground are not on good speaking terms.  I will spend eternity IN it soon enough, I don't need to be sleeping on it.  I think I should like the Clipper life very much   ;-)   Now, to get one!!!

[Toedtoes]

I recommend going through the list with your wife. Even to the point of having her close her eyes and imagining going through various activities in the clipper.

Also, a factor that I never consider as I am a solo camper, but some couples find it annoying to have to climb over each other to get out of bed for middle of the night bathroom visits.  This will be true with any RV that does not include a "walk around" bed.