Looking to buy a Clipper - looking for tips on engines, common issues

[Autoarcheologist]

Hello,

We sold our vintage 1966 Streamline 26' trailer last fall and of course it only took us a few months and one freezing camping trip to realize why so many Pacific Northwesterners have RVs.  They allow you to camp three seasons, when a tent is just too cold.  So of course we're back and now looking at RVs.

We're on a budget, since we'd rather spend money travelling than on a RV, and I stumbled across the Clippers and love the looks of them.

Since they're hard to find and I might have to travel to find one, I figure I might as well get the one we want.

So here are my quetions:

1.  Any major pros/cons to the Dodge 360 vs the 440?  Fuel economy differences?  I see people have overheating issues with the 440, same with the 360?  Reliability?

I know that maintenance will be the deciding factor at this age, and I don't mind doing a tune up or replacing a carb, but I don't want to pull an engine before enjoying it this summer.

2.  Any common issues to watch out for?  Common leak areas?  Signs of major leaks?  As with trailers I know leaks are the rust of the RV world.

3.  What's the construction under the fiberglass?  Plywood?  Wood framed?

4.  Any Clipper owners in Portland, ORE willing to show theirs off?

5.  Which years came with which engines?

6.  Are these engines strangled by emissions like most 70s cars, or were they held to a lighter standard?

If we get one I'll gladly join the club, but obviously would prefer to save a few $ until we get that far.

I have attached a photo of our trailer since I'm sure a few people are curious about it.


https://goo.gl/photos/NWPWVhYP9E3bzH6YA

Thanks!
Ian

[Toedtoes]

So here are my quetions:

1.  If you want to tow anything, you're going to want the 440.  I have the 360 and it is a great little engine - I've never had any overheating issues (which I remind my fellow 440 folks often ).  It got me over Hwy 50 from California to Nevada and up the mountain to Bodie State Historical Park doing a minimum of 30mph and I got about 8mpg round trip (going from 25ft to over 8,375ft elevation).  Reliability-wise I think they are similar.  MPG is going to be between 7 and 10 no matter which engine you get.

One thing to remember is that RVs don't get driven as often as autos.  That means they spend a lot of time over their lifetime sitting.  Clippers are 40 years old now - most now have between 50,000 and 100,000 miles on them.  That's not a lot of miles/year. It's not beyond possibility that you'd have to rebuild an engine within the first 1-4 years of ownership.  You might find one that's already had the engine rebuilt in the recent past.

2.  Check all rubber parts.  Much can be rotted out.  Leaking issues are actually fairly minimal on the clippers.  The fiberglass build was the best: 5 molded pieces with the seams offset from edges.  Most leaking comes from the corners of an RV - as the RV drives down the road, the corner weakens.  Clippers don't have that issue.  Most clipper leaks are based at vents and windows. 

3.  It's wood framed.  Clipper Joe can provide more details as he's dug into his quite a bit.

4.  pdxpffeifer is in Oregon and visits the forum on occasion.  You can send her a PM and see if she's willing to show you hers.  There are about 4 other club members in Oregon, but they don't visit the forum.  It'd be nice to get another owner up there - maybe you can start a new local chapter and have some mini-rallies.

5.  The early years most likely came with the 360.  1977 only offered the 440; 1978 offered the Dodge 440 or the Chevy 400.  I think most later years offered the 440.

6.  It will take some work to get the emissions and the engine performance balanced to the best of both, but it can be done.  Some folks make notes of the best performance setting and the best emission passing setting and switch to the emissions setting when needed.  As I have a 1975, I don't have to worry in California.

As you know from owning a vintage trailer, you have to check the appliances, etc. and make sure they are in working order.  When you buy, get the propane lines tested for leaks (safety thing that many folks don't worry about - but 40 years on the road can loosen connections, rust out, etc.); plan on replacing all rubber (including fuel lines).  As with most RVs, the tires will age out before they wear out - anything older than 7 years needs to be replaced.  There's a lot of weight on those tires and if one blows, it can rip out the entire underbelly (fuel tanks, black/grey/fresh water tanks, etc.).

The clippers are really sturdy well built motorhomes (thank you Irv Perch!).  You won't regret having one.

[Autoarcheologist]

A 1978 Clipper with the rear bath and 440 just popped up locally.   I looked at it last night and it is in pretty good original condition.   A few signs of leaks at the vents but the ceiling is still said except for one area in the back corner.

The tires are old but aren't cracked so they will get us home,  budgeting $1000 for new tires or upgrading to 16" wheels and newer tires. The engine fired right up but I haven't driven it yet,  it looks relatively clean and has headers for what that's worth.

I'm going back to drive it today and test as much as I can.

Wish me luck!

[Autoarcheologist]

And.... We passed.

The rig was in pretty decent shape overall, but was being sold by a flipper who didn't know much about it.

THE GOOD

It started and ran ok
Trans shifted well
Body was straight
Interior was original and in decent shape
Furnace and stove worked
Fridge worked on gas and electric
Interior lights worked
Air bags in rear
Chrome wheel simulators
Most lights worked
New truck battery
Front seats in good shape

THE BAD
15 year old tires
Engine stalled, barely restarted
Exhaust leak
Heater controls broken
Wiper arm disconnected
One brake/turn light out
Temp gauge broken
Active leaks on roof
Hole in ceiling in rear
Didn't test water
Generator wouldn't start
Old coach battery
Steering loose
Shocks worn
Not smogged in Oregon
Coach A/C couldn't be tested
Cab A/C not working
Defroster barely works
No rear belts
Lap only belts up front

This was the first one we have driven and it was loud.  I couldn't imagine driving for 8 hours.  We need to drive a few more to get a feel for what we want.  We really liked the layout and feel inside, so maybe try one with the 360 or just in better condition.

[Toedtoes]

The active leaks would concern me the most - along with the engine/exhaust issues.

You are unlikely to find rear seat belts, and if you do, they are likely just stapled onto the seat's plywood base.  Clippers came with lap belts in front only (no seat belt requirements in those days).  If you want better seat belts, expect to add them yourself.

Also, the cab A/C will rarely work in these old rigs.  The old A/C systems were never that great to begin with and after 40 years are unlikely to still work.  Cost to repair is way more than it's worth.   Heater is more likely to be working.  Defrosters were never that great to begin with on these old vans, so that is hit or miss.

I wouldn't worry too much about one brake light/turn light not working.  They are pretty easy to re-wire.

While 15 year old tires are REALLY old, I recommend you plan on replacing any tires immediately (rarely will you find new tires on a clipper being sold - why put new tires for someone else's benefit).

The active leak would bother me a LOT.  There is no reason for a leak to not get dealt with.  Leaking is the number 1 deal breaker for RV sales and it's an easy fix.  Prior water damage is more difficult to deal with, but if you stop the active leak, you can "hide" the water damage.  That the seller isn't even attempting to stop the leak means it is really really bad.

Regarding noise - they are all loud.  There is no sound dampening in those old rigs.  Every road noise comes right in, and the engine is right between you and the passenger.  With a lot of cab work, you can reduce the noise, but you can create vapor lock issues in doing so.  Your voice will get tired conversing over the noise on a long drive.  Few people I know will drive 8+ hours in a newer RV.  A 40 year old RV is that more unlikely to be driven for extended periods of time.  I personally try to limit my driving time to 5 - 6 hours per day max.  RVs just don't cater to long hours of driving non-stop.

[Autoarcheologist]

Thanks Toed.

I agree, the fact that they couldn't stop the leaks, and who knows how long it had been leaking, were the biggest issues.  That plus it was so obviously a flip he knew nothing about, and we were quickly looking at $5k and climbing.

I would much prefer to find one that is being sold by the actual owner.

Thanks for the info on belts, I'm happy to add them, I did it in our '74 Alfa Romeo.

There is a much nicer one that also just popped up in Portland, I wish it had the couch instead of captains chairs, but it looks much better cared for.  Unfortunately it is also being sold by a "broker" (his words) which turns me off.

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/rvs/5416043034.html

The rebuilt engine sounds nice, but why change to a 383?  Unless you just happen to have it around.  I'll report back on how this one looks.

We are also looking at a few early 90s motorhomes just for a comparison with something that has a 4-speed transmission.

[Toedtoes]

Clipper Joe had the chairs in his. He successfully switched them out with a couch. From what I remember, it was pretty easy to do.

I wouldn't be too afraid of a "broker". Odds are it was owned by an elderly person who died and the "kids" didn't want to spend the effort selling it. Or it was traded in to a dealer who sold it cheap to the broker to get it out of their lot.

The portland one looks very clean. I did wonder about the 383 - most likely they had it sitting around gathering dust. I'd bet it was put in by the broker to get as much money as possible for it. In the end, it could mean you don't have to worry about the engine for another 50k+ miles.