Timing Marks

[Jimbilly]

We have just acquired a 1978 Clipper with a 440 engine in it.  I started to give it a much needed tuneup only to find that the timing marks on the bell housing are not marked as to what they indicate.  There are three marks next to the inspection hole; assunming the center one is TDC, how many degrees d     o the ones on either side indicate?  My shop manual says nothing about the location or reading of these timing marks or those on the front cover, which can't be seen.  I was sure surprised to find this site and the wealth of information it has.  All that I've read makes me feel fortunate to have a motorhome with such a great following of owners.

[LARRY RAY]

I had the same problem, and here is what i did, But it will take Two people. First, take out #1 plug. Turn engine over until rotor points at #1. With that being done, look under Clipper and if yours has marks on balancer the ones on the bottom will be exactly opposite or # 6. Mount a bracket to point to TDC on balancer. Now, hook up to #1 plug and you can time it from under vehicle. Works when there are no marks on torque convertor.

[Rodney]

Timing on the 440 engine and 360 for that matter should read 36- 38 degrees total when the engine is running at 1800 - 2000 rpm. {rev the engine until you read the most advance you can get out of it} you have to us a dial back timing light which is pretty much a must  when tuning the good old engine's without computers that controls all of that.
first you need to establish a positive timing mark whitch should be on the touque convertor. they are hard to see so make sure you have TDC established. and us the cut in the center of the timing hole for your other reference. I used a large screw drive to rotate the eingine by inserting it in the timing hole and using the starter ring gear to turn the engine. this wouldn't be a good time to hit the starter with the screw driver in there. :wink:
mark TDC on the converter after you clean the spot with some carb cleaner. after you set the total advance to 36- 38 then disconect the vacuum form the distributor and idel the engine to 650 750 rpm the inital timing should be around 6 - 8 degrees. also check the vacuum advance by either sucking on the hose going to it or use a vacuum pump either way there sould be no leackage and you should be able to hear the thing in the dist snap back when you release the vacuum. if you don't get a total advance of over 30 or so something is wrong and you may need to look inside the distrubutor.
after you do this you still need to drive the home and see that it pulls strong on a hill and doesn't ping and when hot that it will start without kicking back which could break a starter housing. if it pings or starts hard back off the timing a few degrees.
with all of the different parts that could be installed on a Mopar engine over the years anything could make setting up an engine tricky.
anyone thing could change how to tune it so get a good total advance and work from there you will have the best power and MPG.
hope this helps
bfnR

[dig]

Great post Rodney - thanks  


--dig

[Andy Illes]

Yup... great points Rodney.   Dunno about the 440s, but keep in mind that not all the 360 engine/tranny combos have timing ports in the bellhousing, and have to be set by marks on the harmonic balancer... which can get interesting.... cuz; 1) our Clips are 25+ years old;  2)  a harmonic balancer is basically a ring on a shaft, separated/connected by a rubber "busing", and; 3) rubber ages..... so the outer ring (with the mark on it) can "spin" and the marks on your balancer won't necessarily be even close to accurate (mine were nearly 50* off!!).

To find out (which isn't a bad idea on ANY engine) use Rodney's tip to find true TDC.  All you really have to do is poke a marked stick or something down the #1 plug hole when you think that piston's near TDC and roll the crank around till the stick's at the farthest point out, keeping in mind to make the final turn in the direction of engine rotation (to take up slack).  That's your true TDC, mark it on your balancer or flywheel, or align the pointer.  If yours is like mine was, there's no fix... get a new balancer.  They're under $50 at most any parts place, and are relatively simple to replace (they're on the keyed end of the crankshft, held by the large bolt in the middle).

[Rodney]

to take finding TDC a step further and timing an engine a person has to know that the cam is timed correctly, the timng marks on the engine are to the Deg the cam was intended. { I degree every cam I install} if this isn't for sure you may as well not bother with the rest.
To find TDC with the engine in the vechle and you have a dampner with a mark on it and you are sure it hasn't spun like Andys get a timing tape which mopar preformance sells for a few dollars. clean the dampmer real well and stick the tape on it in  the right direction of course hit it with a heat gun or hair dryer for a minute and make sure it is on there good. then
insert some type of stop in number one spark plug hole. this has to be a tool that threads in the spark plug hole you can make one out of an old spark plug or better yet buy one. after the tool is installed in the hole and set. slowly rotate the engine around counter clock wise until the engine stops. be careful and not hit the piston to hard. it's best to have all 8 sparrk plugs removed. when the engine stops read the timing tape this will  be lets say 12 deg on one side of the tdc mark. but don't pay to much attention to that yet. now rotate the engine in the clock wise direction which is the direction of rotation when running. when it stops read the timing tape again. add the two numbers divide by two and that is your true TDC. now mark the dampner and your good to go. you have to take two readings to find the top of a rotating shaft moving up and down.
them remove the piston stop NOW or you'll be sorry if someone hits the starter. hope this helps.