TIMING GEARS AND CHAIN

LARRY RAY · January 09, 2009, 04:23:39 PM

Just short of having to tear into the front of engine before ordering parts, I thought I would give this a shot. I'm in the process of just a lot of preventive maintenance and want to put new timing chain and gears on our baby. 78-dodge 440-3 /96000 miles. As far as I can tell most everything is still all original. Now my question is this. Has anyone changed timing gear and chains. I have looked at all kinds of places, talked to my friends that do engine repair for a living and both have told me the same thing. (Don't really know it's been too long ago). One motor book I looked in today said 440's in motor homes had double roller chains and gears. Some have said fiber gears. I am really at a loss except to just look and then order. However, If it's a double roller chain and considering the milage it might last a long time to come. So lets get the thinking caps on and post your thoughts before time to roll the rig out again.

tomfridley · January 09, 2009, 05:53:06 PM

every dodge 440 i have seen all have a double roller chain with steel gears. i would not change the chain and gears unless you have a lot of fluctuation on the timing marks with a timing light. by the way, the timing marks on your 440 on a motorhome are on the torque converter and are visible with a timing light through a round sight hole on top of the bell housing of the transmission.

LARRY RAY · January 10, 2009, 05:12:45 AM

Thanks for your input Tom. I had just about come to that conclusion but that awful thought of a fibered gear still bothered me. My timing rarely ever fluctuated even though it was hard to read. I had the transmission rebuilt with new converter a couple of years ago and it had no marks on it. So with a little help i was able to put a slotted screwdriver into the tube on the original indicator on the timing cover. After making sure I was exactly on TDC, I mounted a new one to the pan with liquid steel. It works great. Now that I have found that the balancer is in real bad shape (causing me a great deal of worrisome vibration) I may have to go through the whole process again. Again, Thanks---That bit of info will save me a lot of unnecessary work and worry.

Larry

mccammonds · January 10, 2009, 08:04:51 AM

My 360 had fiber gears.
Carquest had the set (two gears and chain) in stock.

I have a hole in the top of my bellhousing. Reckon I could use it to time my 360?

tomfridley · January 10, 2009, 12:07:35 PM

dodge 360 engines with a hole in the bell housing should have timing marks in there also. dodge did this because the crank damper is so confined in the engine compartment it would be very hard to get a timing light in there. as you stated, the 360 [and 318] engines have fiber gears and do not last nearly as long as steel gears.

LARRY RAY · January 24, 2009, 06:14:26 AM

It's amazing how age of things makes the memory fade. Now that I have just about decided to go ahead and change the timing gears and chain, I have found that there are two differant gears out there. Also because of living in an area where large parts stores don't keep much in stock I will have to order. I want to have everything on hand before I start. That is where I am stumped. I know someone on here has changed theirs so tell me--Which gear fits the 440? Is the single bolt or three bolt pattern. Seems like, the single bolt is for the engine that had a lobe on the cam for the fuel pump. Man it's been so long since I've been into a Dodge engine, for the life of me I can't remember. My best friend's a mechanic and I spend a lot of time at his shop when I can, and if it were a Ford or Chevy I would not even have to even look for the answer. And by the way he doesn't do or has ever done Dodge. He's funny about things like that. Anyway I feel if there is a place to hunt the answer this is the place. Thanks.

ps. Tom.. I tried to contact you by e-mail you have listed and it won't go through.

JerryT · January 27, 2009, 10:56:09 AM

I just looked in my 1978 factory Dodge service manual for the b300/cb300/mb300 and they show one bolt and a big washer on the 400/440. I looked in my 1966 factory service manual and they showed 3 bolts for the truck big block engine. Less is more-more or less- I guess

JerryT

LARRY RAY · January 27, 2009, 01:38:44 PM

Thanks Jerry. And boy would I like to get my hands or your manual. E-mail me as to where I might find one. The power of Google has really done my brain some damage and some good. What I mean by that is, Never think you know what you have until you've really dug deep. I have learned from the 440source.com website that yes my block is a 440 like I though but not the 440-3 I was told. According the my Vin code and you can find that on the google search as well It's a 440-1. Now what all that means is a good question. I think I've finally found where to look on the block for certain #'s just to put my mind at ease. Yes I'm still going to do my repairs as planned, even though my brain is tired. I found casting #'s on the block 4006630-440-9. Found out through the 440 web site that it means 9 improvements were made to the original casting. Good or bad I don't know. I suppose it doesn't really matter I've gotten a lot of good miles out of it so far and many more to come I hope. So for all of you that really want to dig about the 440-1 and the 440-3 start google-ing and you too will get brain freeze. And to think, this all started with looking for harmonic balancer and the thought of timing set. All of you have a great day. For me? I'm trying to find something else to post just to keep the enthusiasm going on our Clipper site.

JerryT · January 27, 2009, 06:51:12 PM

Larry
I was taught that the dash 1 means that it is a run of the mill car engine. The dash 3 means it is a large truck motor i.e. 1 1/2 to 4? ton with the truck upgrades done to it what ever they may be the year it was produced. I have never heard of a dash 2 motor, but I know that they marked an engine that was not stock such as an oversized bore or an undersized journal. I know they would fix minor imperfections in the block too.
I found my manual on Ebay. At the top it says, 1978 Plymouth Voyager Dodge Compact, at the bottom it says,
Chassis-Body Service Manual. The # at the bottom is 81-370-8114. The border/book is green with an artistic picture of a service bay with the rear of a yellow/gold van showing. I see them on Ebay now and then from $25-$50.
I am in phase 2 of my Clipper redo and I need to get some pics posted also. I added some stock arm rests to my stock seats and I love them!!! It was an easy upgrade too.
JerryT

tomfridley · January 27, 2009, 09:37:51 PM

i agree with larry. the 440-3 engine is an industrial engine equipped with exhaust valve rotators and a water heated intake manifold to preheat the bottom of the carburator instead of a exhaust heated intake manifold. that is why the right side exhaust manifold has a bi-metal spring to operate a valve to direct the exhaust through the intake manifold on the standard engine.
the engine block near the starter motor will have a large seven digit casting followed by a dash {-} and one number following it. the casting with 440-3 is an industrial engine.
all the other 440 dash numbers are the standard production engines as found in a passenger car or light truck.
this has been my finding as a veteran chrysler parts man of 30 years.

LARRY RAY · February 04, 2009, 02:07:45 PM

Well Tom, I'm sure glad you have the thirty years behind you, because I have a good one for ya.
Inside the drivers door where the vin plate is riveted, I have the following----F34BD8V******.
What I have not been able to find in all the Dodge decoder sites is the letter F. And according to what else it tells me is that I do in fact have a 440-1. That might not be too bad though as I have also found that the dash-1 is higher performance heads. So if you can find anything let me know. I do remember seeing Dodge Fargo and something else, and without going and looking right now I can't remember that either. Now with the heads in mind, It might not have been a bad thing not to have had the dash 3 heads with extra cooling capacity. It would have had to make them a little thinner in places. The reason I say that, is because last spring when coming home from a fishing trip and pulling our 28' pontoon boat The clipper got rather hot. I was however able to make it home another 100 miles or so and when checking out everything to find the problem, I found the thermostat pin in the center had pushed through the top housing and it was completely shut. Running only on bypass hose and heater core with fan on high and window down to help keep me a little cooler.
Oh well that's enough of that for now, so anyone that can figure out the VIN code my best wishes. I'll keep watching and looking and maybe someday I'll know. Everyone have a Great Day.

tomfridley · February 04, 2009, 06:11:05 PM

larry, the letter "F" is simply an incomplete dodge van chassis. it left the dodge factory without a van body on it [except for the front end] and they were sold to motorhome factorys for completion. by the way the "8" in your vin indicates a 1978 model chassis regardless what the completed motorhome manufacturer claims. many times i have had a customer at the parts counter ask for parts for a 1978 model motorhome when indeed the vehicle identification number [vin] indicated a 1977 model.

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