Anyone else had problems with thier clipper not being able
to pump up the gas to start? '75 Dodge 360 2bbl.
New carb, new fuel pump, new filter, new hose up front.
The gas evaporates out of my carb, and I can't get it to start
w/o dribbling a tiny bit of gas into the carb.
Any Ideas?
I could put in a electric 'boost' pump.....But I don't understand why
it won't work in stock form.
The lines to the evaporation can are blocked off from my tank.
Could this be why? Or maybe collapsed lines at the back?
It seems to run great once it gets fuel going /starts.
I'm kind of stumped on this one. It had gas in it from 1998 and I
changed it and went through 3 fuel filters and rebuilt the carb many times..... eventually I found that the carb power valve plunger
was worn in the carb lid / top.... now it runs great and has fresh
clear fuel....
But still can't pump to start itself.
If you ever need your old gas syphoned just leave the lid off and
the neighbors will do it for you......
Now thier cars don't work.........LOL
I have had this same problem, however I have a 440 with a four barrel. New carb, new filter and even a electric pump back by the tank. I'm also curious on this. It takes her a while to start but once started get out of the way.
Den
I have a 440 with 750 cfm Edlebock carb and Edlebrock intake. I also have 2 in-line electric fuel pumps. The electric pumps are connected to the ignition switch and a toggle switch on the dash. If it sits for a couple weeks I have the same problem. However, if I turn the key and the toggle switch on for a minute before turning the starter, it takes much less time to start.
Well I'm glad I'm not the only one having this problem. My calf muscle gets plenty of excercise as I'm pumping my gas pedal after a week of so of sitting. I have a chevy 400 with thermoquad.
I guess that the nature of our beast.
There has to be a way to fix it. I'm going to try buying one of those
compressed air tanks and blowing back though the lines to make the
tank bubble. Then I may temporarily run the compressed air into
my capped vapor canister lines - to positive pressurize the tank a bit -
and see if it helps.
I wonder if the tank has a screen in it or a sock.
If not, I guess I'll have to mount some pull tab cloth handles onto the side
of the doghouse.....
I too have the same issue. I figure it just either evaporates out of the carb bowl or flows back down hill to the fuel tank. I have no apparent leaks.
Where would be the best place to install an electric fuel pump? I have one but I haven't had the time to install it yet. Close to the tank or closer to the carb? Should I leave my mechanical fuel pump in line? I don't see why I should remove it but...
Dodge 360 2bbl
install your pump as close to the tank as you can it's also a good idia to put another fuel filter before the pump leave your engine pump in I removed the other filter and put in a replaceable filter with a cartrige makes it real easy to change :D
I installed a electric fuel pump back by the tank. Seems to help on hot days or long hills. Doesn't seem to help on starting, I think the oem pump stops all flow at its place, it may help I don't know. It takes me about three minutes to get her running. It's even a pain to start after sitting for two days. I'm wondering if its flowing back down ? If so couldn't one install a one way valve in the fuel line after the pump ?
db
when the elec is running itll go past the engine driven just like you can turn off the elec and the engine will pull through the pump when you start let the pump rum for a min you can hear when it pumps up it slows way down then you should have gas in the bowl :D
Hard starting - my experiences.........
First episodes were due to a backflow valve in the mechanical fuel pump which failed - then, gas runs back out of the carb line, through the pump (which it shouldn't) and back towards the gas tank. When the gas tank was full - it wasn't as bad as when it was less than half full - don't know why, maybe back pressure?
Note that when I replaced the mechanical fuel pump, the "new" one's back flow valev failed immediately - so had to get another one.
The next time it happended (this is a bit embarrasing quite frankly) was because of two bad plug wires. I could not for the life of me figure out why my rig was having a hard time starting after sitting for a few days. So I slowly started checking everyting, and voila - two plug wires were cooked a bit, and since the actual copper was exposed a little, there was some rust, thus electrical flow at start time was compromised. I really had to check the wire, as in pull it off the plug to discover the breach. (Note that once it started, it ran like a champ. Note also that these wires weren't that old, but they weren't the best wires either if you know what I mean......lesson learned)
So, off I went to the parts store, and bought some top-of-the-line plug wires - and ever since then my Clipper starts right up - even after 2+ weeks.
Here's my "cold" starting routine - may work for one of you.
1) I crank the engine for 5 seconds (without touching the gas pedal)
2) I push the gas pedal to the floor twice, and let it up - wait 3 seconds - then crank the engine again (without pushing on the gas pedal). Usually it will start here, and as soon as it does I give it a little gas to get it going and set the choke. Then warm-up a for a few minutes, pump the gas a little to drop the idle/release the choke, and I'm off.
3) If it didn't start after 5 seconds of cranking in Step 2, I wait about 10 seconds - push the gas pedal to the floor once (and let it up) - wait about 3 seconds, and then start cranking again (but not for more than 5 seconds)
4) If it still didn't start , I repeat step 3 - but I hardly ever go past Step 2 :-)
How did you know that the new pumps (backflow valve)
failed immediately? You could see the gas in a clear
filter drain back out?
"Immediately" is a strong word I suppose - more like about a week or so as I recall.
What happened was when the new fuel pump was installed, things were fine. The, bingo - hard starting again. So my mechanic checks out the fuel pump - takes it out and tests it by putting just a very light back pressure on the unit - and gas just ran right on through........ - so, off to the parts store for a free replacement - been fine ever since.
Thanks Horst, this works great. I'm going to give her a complete tune up this weekend, only can get better.
Thanks Again, Dennis
1) I crank the engine for 5 seconds (without touching the gas pedal)
2) I push the gas pedal to the floor twice, and let it up - wait 3 seconds - then crank the engine again (without pushing on the gas pedal). Usually it will start here, and as soon as it does I give it a little gas to get it going and set the choke. Then warm-up a for a few minutes, pump the gas a little to drop the idle/release the choke, and I'm off.
3) If it didn't start after 5 seconds of cranking in Step 2, I wait about 10 seconds - push the gas pedal to the floor once (and let it up) - wait about 3 seconds, and then start cranking again (but not for more than 5 seconds)
4) If it still didn't start , I repeat step 3 - but I hardly ever go past Step 2
I know this thread is old but I posted this cause I think I figured out why.
See other post about fuel tank replacement.
I'm fairly sure it had something to do with old soft mushy hoses
back at the tank. :roll:
Been through all of the problems, attempted cures, and symptoms that everyone has described. The poblem turned out to be a hole(small split)in the fuel line. Check the rubber portion of the lines where they go from the steel lines along the rear of the frame into the tank. The only way to really check them is to drop the fuel tank. Sorry, but that's the only way; besides, if you haven't changed the lines recently it's time to replace them considering their age.
A-dude et al....
Jimbilly has a good point. If there's ANY way air can get sucked into the fuel line, it'll drive you nuts, so definitely replace all rubber connector hoses as well as inline filters.
The mechanical engine pump has 2 little caged, spring-loaded fiber discs, one facing each direction, that act as one-way valves. The smallest particle can keep them for sealing. Easy way to check your fuel pump is to take both fuel lines off the pump and try blowing through the pump with a piece of hose. You should be able to easily blow through one way, and not at ALL the other way. If you can blow both ways, you have a bad pump. The pump works through a cam-actuated lever that moves a diaphragm... that can also be leaky and would additionally allow raw gas to enter the crankcase as well.
If you hook up an electric pump, I'd mount it right at the tank, wire it through the ignition switch, and would definitely bypass the mechanical pump (on account of the leaky diaphragm possibility).
Another possibility that's been overlooked is the opposite of fuel starvation. If your carb has a bad float needle-valve/seat, the engine can flood and cause hard starting. If it will start while holding the gas pedal to the floor (without any pumping), that's it. It's worth a try.
Good luck
Andy - HungarianDude@AOL.com 561-317-2282
I've thought about bypassing the stock pump - just because of the
leaking fuel possibility into the case.....
I usually sniff the dipstick to check....whenever I check the oil.
I probably modify this later/soon.
I've got it working now, I had to replace my fuel tank ( cracked )
and the fuel line at the back was really soft....
If you ever have to replace your tank, the 36 gallon tank, and the
50 Gallon tank use different straps. Looks like they would be the
same, but the forwards backwards bands are different. The cross
band was the same.... wierd.....
I have to crawl back in there and redo my guage lines anyway, and
the ground for the sender......so I'll bond in the ground wire for a
pump when I do it later...
Me to!! 79 440 clipper with hard start. the big fix for me so far was to replace the thermo quad which was leaking fuel from the float bowl right in the crank case. this is an inhearent problem with these carbs. if you can change it for and edelbrock or holley do it. I went with a 780 vac 2nd. this fixed my hard starting problem but I do plan on installing an electric pump with larger fuel lines up to the engine.
one thing to take into consideration when installing an electic fuel pump is to have it wired so it shuts off with the ignition so it is not accedently left on!!! this is a fire or at the least a fuel leak looking to happen at some time unless all of the fuel fittings are AN and the fuel line is steel or steel braided. with NO rubber at all. and one should also install a fuel regulater in front of the electric pump to have a steady 3-6 lbs of fuel pressue at the carb.
one thing that also might we worth looking into is an thermo spacer between the carb and intake. to keep the heat from the engine from boiling the fuel in the carb bowel. the spacers are about an inch and will also give a little more bottom end touqe on a 440. on the 440 engine there should be a peice of insulation between the valley tray and intake to ward off some of the heat to the intake. i have never seen anyone replace this when they pull ed the intake off but might be a good idea on these homes. once the engine is shut off, the heat in the dog house has no place to go so it just cooks everything under it. I plan on installing an electic cooling fan in front of the radiator to run after the engine is shut off. this worked great on my race car and when wired with a thermo switch to shut if off when the temp reaches 160 or so this works great.
to take it a step further an electric coolant pump to curculate the coolant would be best but kind of spendy.