120V Breaker Panel Question....

[19julien59]

Howdy!  My old Progressive Dynamics 733 converter/charger bit the dust and I am installing a new 9200 Intellipower unit. This install is pretty straight forward. However, I have a question on the 120V side.  First off, the Main breaker is only 20A...shouldn't it be 30A?  Second, there are two other breakers...15A outlets (only one wire...so I guess all the outlets are in series) and 20A for the A/C (I disconnected the feed because I don't and won't have A/C....so I am going to use this breaker to run the outlet for the 9200).  Third, and most confusing, is there is a lug at the end of the bus bar that has a 12awg romex connected to it.  So it is an un-breakered circuit.  Anyone know what this is for???   I don't have a generator and have removed the generator outlet....cause I don't need it.  

I have this week to get this going...so I can hit the road.  Please help.  Thanks.

[LARRY RAY]

Without looking at the point of connection, I would be inclined to believe it would be a frame ground. Should a short occur or a hot wire touching some type of metal (which it would have to be the frame on a clipper) it would trip the unit off if gf plugs are used. Now take in mind the convertor could be used on many more items than a clipper. Hope this helps.

[19julien59]

OK.  I ohmed out the circuits.  The un-breakered wire on the lug is the "shore power" from the factory installed lead.  This makes sense because where you are plugged in at a park would have it's own breaker at the service location outside.  The wire that feeds the Main breaker goes to the generator plug under the dinette seat...right by the shore power line.  This was confusing me because it is a breaker that serves as an input rather than an output.

However, this leads to another question....if I have the generator plugged in and the main breaker on....What prevents the shorepower line from being backfed???  I don't have a transfer switch that I know about....don't see one anyway.

[LARRY RAY]

Not sure about your setup, but on my clipper and probably like most the generator feeds the receptacle only under the dinnet seat. When usesing the generator the power cord must be plugged into this. When using shore power the cord would have to be unplugged from this, then plugged in to the shore plug. This would take away any connection from shore to generator.

[19julien59]

My shore power cord is connected into the same junction box as the generator outlet.  There is just a male end on this cord for connection to shore power.  It looks factory.

I am sure there is no connection between the two in the junction box (ohmed it out), but my concern is that the shore power connects at the breaker box on the (+) bus directly.  So, if I were to use the generator outlet....which goes to the Main breaker...it could (will) feedback to the shore power male plug via the (+) bus.

I did some research and my Honda generator has a 20A breaker built in...so I will just use the shore power cord to connect to it and avoid the feedback issue.  What is strange is that in this case...the Main breaker would not actually have to be turned on to power up my other two circuits (20A A/C and 15A Outlets).  Based on my home wiring experience this set-up is wierd....you could think the power is turned off at the main, but still have the panel energized via the shore power. 

[JerryT]

Hi Julien
On my Clipper's factory wiring the generator does NOT connect to the breaker panel. It connects to a romex that runs IN the floor over to the drivers side wiring area under my rear dinette seat and is connected to a 30 amp outlet. The shore power cord connects to a 30 amp breaker in my breaker box and is my main breaker. It also runs IN the floor via a second romex. When the generator is running the outlet is hot via the first romex and if you plug the cord into the outlet then the panel is hot via the second romex. I think you have altered wiring and you are right it is unsafe. I used one of the romex's IN the floor as a pull wire, I connected three wires to it on the generator side and pulled it out the passenger side and pulled in a replacement wire, an extra wire and a 12v wire (and a small pull rope also) as I added some "Lestricity" to my passenger side. Your other option is to add a transfer switch so that the blades of the plug are not hot when the generator is running. Look closer and let us know what you find.

JerryT

[19julien59]

Thanks JerryT....I am completing the project this week and will wring it out and let you know.  I've done quite a bit of house wiring and have worked in Temperature Controls commerically....so don't worry about my safety...I check and re-check, then check again. 

[JerryT]

Just seeing you use the term -wring it out- makes me feel better

JerryT

[prophetdaniel2]

think I have the same wiring problem with my setup, and i know for certain that someone has rebuilt the generator. If I plug into shore power, I HAVE to disengage the fuse/switch built into my generac, otherwise Bad things happen quickly....

[19julien59]

Progress Report:  

I moved the batteries (now four 6V for 440AH!) to the right side of the storage compartment and built in a sealed divider...then added 2 1/2 times the original venting (a 10" x 20" vent) by cutting into the door panel.  This leaves the rest of the compartment for access to the back of the breaker panel..where I mounted the 12V terminal strip and ground bus, vertically mounted the Charger/Converter (C/C) and a 1000W Inverter.  The "old" battery vent provides ventilation for the C/C and inverter.  The 12V house inputs and C/C output go to blade type (+) and (-) shut offs to isolate the batteries.  So I can run the C/C without the batteries if needed, and switch off the grounds to prevent battery drain. I ran all new chassis grounds and connectors for the 120V, C/C and battery 12V.  

The 12V input for the inverter goes direct to the batteries (2ga).  I abandoned the A/C breaker and used it for 120V for the C/C.  I abandoned the "old" generator input to the Main breaker and used the Main for the input 120V from the inverter (14ga solid romex)....so the inverter powers up all my in-place 120V outlets...and the breaker isolates the inverter from the main bus when I am plugged into shore power (which is a direct connection to the bus, with a 20A built-in breaker on the Honda 2000W remote generator).  I cut in a 2x4 "finger hole" to reach the Inverter on/off switch from the inside of the cabin and covered it up with a wet rated hinged cover inside.  So the inverter is double switched by the Main breaker and the built-in on/off.  

The only thing I have left is the main battery cabling and put in some plastic lattice (from Home Depot) to protect the electronics in the storage compartment from anything I store in there (cheater bar, tools, Honda Generator for travel storage). I will try to post some pictures when totally complete.