I have an American Clipper on a 440 Dodge. It has 65000 miles on it. We just got it a few months back. It ran pretty good until the last couple trips. It looks like every time we use the lights the and stop the engine afterwards the engine will not start. The battery has good charge but when it will not even crank the engine. Even the lights will not turn on. We took it to a shop they said wire going to the ampmeter was loose. It drove great all morning but *** soon as i turned on the lights and stopped for gas it died on us. I know its got to do something with the electrical but not sure. Will help me a lot coz right now its parked 100 miles from home in a KMart parking lot until i can figure out what is wrong.
thanks
syd
It sounds like your alt is not charging the battery and when you put on the lights it drains the battery to a point where it wont start it again. Id get another battery get it started then put a meter to the battery it should read 13.6 to 14.6 any lower the battery will not charge enoff to start the motor if its low over 12.6 leave everthing off and haul rear to home and get the alt checked and or the regulator good luck (//images/smiles/icon_wink.gif)
Forgot a thing make sure to clean the battery cables and the ground cable where it grounds to the body (//images/smiles/icon_eek.gif)
Thanks for ur advice Jim. That was exactly what i thought it was. But i was wrong. I dropped a brand new battery and still the engine will not crank. If i use the bypass starter it will crank but will not start up. It sounds like a weak wire or wiring problem. I was hoping someone can tell me what i should be looking to identify which wire(junction) when malfunctioning will totally cut the battery from the circuit coz even with a new battery in place the head light will not turn on. But the hazard lights work.(that is the only thing that works).
syd
Again check all your grounds next check the fuzable links they are special peaces of wire that if over loaded they burn in two, turn on your key and try jumping the starter also take off and clean all the wires to your stater did anyone check the ignestion switch when they checked the wiring? you said it cranked when you hit the emergency start switch ? did you have the key on when you did this let me know what this switch is and where its wired into the system (//images/smiles/icon_confused.gif)
I did check most of the wires i could see. They seemed to be secure.
There are 2 fusible links close to he battery they seem fine.
I tried jumping it but no luck.
What bothers me is that with a brand new battery in place alteast my headlights should turn on even if it seems dead when i turn the ignition.
The bypass starter i think is powered off the rv's battery in case of emergency, like a dead meain battery. That will crank the engine but will not start, kinda indicates that the engine is not getting any sparks.
Other than that iam clueless. If u have any ideas please let me know.
worst case what is the best way to tow it home. I have a dodge ram 1500 with a class4 hitch reciever.
I really appreciate you getting back to me promptly. Thank you.
syd
Forgot to add. I left the ignition key in the on position when i used the bypass starter.
Boy youv got a messed up unit if the main battery dosent crank it but the house battery does then you have what I told you before power isent getting from the battery to the starter whitch could be a bad ignestion switch also you could have a bad ignestion modual. whith the key on jump the starter and see if the engine cranks that will tell you if the switch is bad or a bad fuzable link sometime a fuzable link can be burned but look ok the only way to really tell is put a meter on one end and see if you have power at the other as far as towing it with your dodge your looking at about 9000+lbs of dead weight and youll have to pull the drive shaft or youll mess up your trans but again start at the beginning from the battery to the starter and the ignestion switch lets hpoe this helps (//images/smiles/icon_sad.gif)
That fuseable link can be a killer. I once was driving about 5 miles from home when everything stopped. Wouldn't start, no lights, totally dead. After fiddling with connections at the battery I discovered the fuseable link had a disconnect in the middle. It had a little corrosion. I pulled it apart, cleaned it and everything was fine. When I got home I got rid of the connection and soldered the fuseable link together. End of that problem. Hope this helps.
thank you guys..I think my problem sounds exactly like what tiger cat describes. I will take a look at the fusible links again. How many fusible links are there that i should check.
9000lbs huh...i dont think my dodge can pull more than 9000 lbs for 100 miles. I guess i will cut off the fusible links and just twist the wire together and see if i can get it home. Also can you tell me what exactly how the second battery fits in the circuit.
1) does it only power the internal rv stuff and for the bypass starter?
(or)
2) does it sit behind the primary battery and help power the entire vehicle in case of a dead primary battery?
thanks guys
syd
the second battery is for the house only except if you have the emergency switch the isolater keeps the engine battery from being drained if the house battery goes dead but remember if you have the emergency switch on the house battery can drain the main.I think theres two or three linkes mines not here so I cant check it for you but like I said before just use a meter on eather side of the links and youll find the bad one
There is a big multiple-conductor connector above the battery that carries battery power thru the firewall to the dash area. Try turning on the headlghts (which you say are not working) and watch them while moving that plug. If you see the lights come and go, clean the contacts with a good contact cleaner (Radio Shack sells it).
If this connector is intermittent, it can interrupt power to the lights and the starting circuit as well and could be the cause of your problem. A partial connection failure (high resistance) could cause the sympton you describe, with low drain lights like turn signals working but failure of the head lights. Good luck!
HPotter
My guess is a fusable link - they can be burned with no outward sign. I towed my Clipper about 5 miles with my '02 Ram 1500 4 x 4. I had no problem but there were no hills and I went very slowly. The wrong oil filter had been installed and I lost all oil pressure.
Dear Syd #294: Please let us know how you make out in solving your problem and what the "cure" was.
Thank you all for your advice. This weekend i will try to get my clipper running. As soon as i have solved the problem i will post what exactly was the problem.
Have a great week end.
syd
Hi:
I could not figure out what was wrong with it. I tried cleaning all the fusible links for power they all seemed fine. So i towed it back home.
Just out of curiosity when i got home i started it and it started up just fine. As soon as i turned on the headlights the engine died on me and the same old symptoms returned.
So are u guys aware of any specific reason why it would do this?
syd
You may want to replace the ballast resister($2 or $3) which changes the voltage in the system once the engine starts. It is attached to the wiper motor(on my '78 anyway). It is a porcelin or ceramic unit with connectors on each end.
Look around for the ballast resister.It's not the one on the wiper motor. The one you want has 2 dbl.connectors going to it. On my 78 440 it is hidden behind the brake master cylinder and mounted above it on the firewall.When you compare it to the one on the wiper motor.It has 4 contacts.The one on the wiper motor has only 2.
I just thought I'd let you know your not alone. my 78 started yesterday and today it won't. I traced all the wires and have checked all my connections. I even replaced the coil and balast resistor with no luck. I'm leaning toward the ECU control unit. I'm determined to get this fixed in the next two days before the weekend. I'll defintetly let you know what fixes it. I do have a book on the engine wiring if it will help you. ( not that it has me yet)
Ok. With the ignition off I attached a jumper wire to a good engine ground. Take off the coil wire at the cap and hold it within a 1/4 inch of a good ground. Then turn the ignition to ON, not run, and touch the jumper wire to the neg side of the coil and see if you get a spark at your coil wire end (the neg side should be a black and yellow wire the pos side is pink). Try touching the jumper to the neg side a couple of times just to make sure it is or isn't getting a spark. It won't be much of a spark and you may have to almost touch the coil wire to the ground. If you get a spark then its not your ECU. If there is no spark then disconnect the plug from the back of your ECU. The ECU is the electronic ignition control unit. It should be attached to the firewall just behind and above your battery. It will have a plug on the back with four or five wires, I think you have five, and it has a screw in the middle of it. Take it off and do the same proceedure I mentioned ealier with the coil wire and jumper. If you get a spark this time then it's your ECU. It only costs about $30 at most parts stores. Let me know if you have any luck. If not I have more tech info. that might be helpful.
If your starter will not crank the engine, you should check to see if it is getting enough power. The first connection is where the positive battery cable connects to the one continuing on to the starter. This connection is made at a box under the brake booster, on the firewall. If that connection is good, go onto the terminal at the starter. Does the starter sound as if it wants to turn, similar to a weak battery? If so, it either is not getting enough power,which could be the selenoid or it could be the starter itself. Once you have the starter turning properly, go after the ignition system which is a different set of checks entirely. All your problems sound like primary voltage ones and may be simple once you find where you are losing the voltage. A voltmeter is necessary to help trace all these places. (//images/smiles/icon_cool.gif)
Syd when all this started did you by chance have your emergency switch on ? if you do make sure it is off or disconect it. if you leave it on anything on in the house will drain both batterys and if your alt is not charging at full power 14 to 14.6 you could be running off the battery instead of the alt so when you turn on the lights it kills what power you had left in the batterys and killed the motor.remember if the battery goes so does power to ignestion system So take the emergency swich out of the picture and see what happens one other thing check your refridgerator if it is a three way make sure the switch is off and it pops out this happend to me and killed both my battterys in a hour (//images/smiles/icon_eek.gif)
Hello Syd, I read your post and had to add my 2cents. Get a 12volts test light and ground one end and go to your starter. the big cable at the starter is the one that comes from the battery. touch the probe of the test light to the big stud holding the cable to the starter. the light should come on. If it does, then you voltage. (If not then you have an open circuit at that cable from your battery)
Now next to the big lug is a smaller lug. this should be your starter solenoid actuator lug. Get a jumper,one end to pos. terminal or any 12v source like the big cable we just verified was hot. AND BE CAREFUL BECAUSE WERE GOING TO VERIFY YOUR STARTER CIRCUIT AND WHEN YOU DO THIS THE ENGINE WILL CRANK OVER. If it cranks its not your battery or cable. So the relay that controls that circuit is open, the additional load of the headlamps is causing it to go open. (bad connection) There are some relays underhood. Turn on headlights even if they dont turn on leave them on. Now find anything that looks like a relay touch it checking for excessive heat and tapp the relays with something to get contacts to hopefully close. If headlights come on you`ve found it. If there on to begin with, then tap and try to start unit up after tapping each individual relay. If unit starts up they there is a good chance that you`ve found your culprit It`ll help if you have a manual. Sorry for my poor english writing skills . Any further questions E-mail me
Syd,
Pay close attention to HPotters post of Febuary 8th. I had the same problem last year when I stoped for gas in Ventura CA. I used a 12 volt test light to check the wiring going through the firewall connector HPotter talked about. This is a very inportant piece of wireing. My trouble cleared up when I reseated the plugs.
Donald Davidson
Whats going on we havent heard from you in a while did you find the problem ? let us all know so others can binafit from the fix (//images/smiles/icon_smile.gif)
Sid If you have no power anywhere then you have a bad Electronic control unit.On the firwall under the hood.. BobChaney
Hi:
Thank you all for your help.
We finally figured out the problem. It was a simple short: One of the wires in the dash(the ones going to the voltmeter) was loose and was touching other wires. Once we opened up the dash and screwed it in there has been no problems since.
I still do not understand some of the symptoms that we had before we fixed it like
1) the engine starting up after a long rest
2) the battery draining etc.
But It runs well now and thats all I can ask for (//images/smiles/icon_smile.gif)
Thank you all again for your help.
Best Regards
Syd
Hi all. This post may be 8 months untimely, but I just got my Clip 2 months ago, and just found this fantastic website. I've had exactly the same problem. I finally found that one of the 2 fusible-linked wires going into the firewall connector wasn't seated (though not obvious). It was the larger one that goes into the bottom socket of the right-most white connector. Drove me NUTS till I found it - without that connection, nothing works!! It must have gotten jiggled lose over the years, and the fix was simply pushing it back in to reseat it... no problems since. (//images/smiles/icon_smile.gif)
Same exact problem on my 21ft 77 w/440. Replacing the fuse-able link solved it!! What a great help this site has been!!
-Daniel
I had that same problem also. Sometimes it was hard to start, would check under the hood, wiggle a few wires or maybe not, close the hood and then it would start. The last time it happened, we had just pulled out of the storage unit and were loading to leave for the lake amd it would not start. Already had changed pick-up coil in dist I knew something else had to be the culprit. Follow the larger (mine was black) wire. When I opened mine up all most to center of wiring bundle I found corrosion in two of the coonections that are splices to other feeds. The main corrosion problem I traced right back to ignition module. Re-soldered all connections, retaped and no more problems. Hope this helps a little. Rest assured though It will be a wiring problem.
Hi guys, About five or six years ago we were driving in the mountains around 10 pm
No street lights.... I made a turn to the right and Myt biggest fears came alive"
Lost "All Lights" I must say, I had to change my shorts after that!
I took my flashlight and stated checking loose wires nothing happened until I moved awire the goes to the
chassie connection to the fuse box, the lights came on and off we went. The next day on our way back we both looked at the area we had to stop........ Good thing the wife stayed in the rig, straight drop about fifty feet
Found the problem and it was a corroded connection even though I dead wired the connection I have not had a problem with it since.
john
Syd108---- John here, just wondering how you made out on the Clipper!!
Did you find the problem???? I don't know about some of these guys "But I get
to wondering what the answer was...
Hope your on the Road and enjoying your rig. Mine in is for a complete rebuild
and a rebuild trans. I found out the rebuild kit for the 727 trans is only $80.00
and I found a shop that will rebuild it using my kit. And I still get a 12,000 mile warrenty.
Hope all is well., John
Hi there to all in the Clipper Club, While reading some of the older posts I am understanding that My rig has some of the same electrical [problems. And it stems from the junction box the they all run in to the fire wall and connect. I had my headlights go out while going to Big Bear one night.
Wiggled some wires and they came back on. The next day I found that the connection box was corroded
and almost all the wireing was the same. I ended up runing the wire through the firewall directly.
for the wires that had corroded entirely in the fuse box. I did put inline fuses in the wireing to compensate for the fuse box. Just keeping up to the task at hand. Don't be affraid to try some of these things, it is better than being stuck on the side of the road.
John