I just got done replacing the original power center with a new Progressive Dynamics PD4000 with 45 amp. Both 120volt/12volt sides seem to work, but I was wondering, I never checked the original power center to see if the 120 system works through an inverter. In other words, can you guys who are running with the original power center use the 120 volt plug-ins when drawing power off the coach batterys?
Rob
Wall sockets (120) will not work unless powered from shore or a generator.
But I'm not sure this is what you are asking.......
Are you asking if the original powercenter is set-up to accept wiring from an inverter so that you could run 120 off the inverter and your house batteries??
I wouldn't think so - but I'm an electrical dunce!
That Progressive Dynamics PD4000 is what is called an RV converter (load center) Usually with 120v and 12v fuses. It will charge your batteries when plugged into shore or generator power. It is usually just like a trickle charger (maybe 5 amps). Not the best to charge a coach battery real fast.
To use only your batteries to make 120V AC you will need an inverter. It's input is from the coach batteries. The output is 120V AC. Be aware of the wattage of the output of your inverter.
Hi Rob
I added an inverter [12v to 120v] and transfer switch to my coach so that when I turn on my inverter it feeds the power [120v] to the power center circuit breakers and thus the wall outlets. I did have to add a relay so that the converter [120v to 12v] did not come on when the inverter was turned on. Also I do not turn on the A/C unit [too large] when running on inverter power. It is nice to have 120v with out running the generator.
JerryT
You done it right. And like you said the AC was too large for the inverter. We should be aware that even if the out put of the inverter does have the wattage to carry the load it is foolish to try and tax the inverter input (house batteries) to run even thing like a regrig. or other heating devices. Anything over 400 watts over any extended period of time will tax the system too much.
Hi JerryT
What did you use for a transfer switch? The project sounds interesting and beneficial but was wondering what was involved in doing so and the availability of parts and cost of doing so compared to using a plug in inverter.How big of an inverter are you using?Thanks. Bob
Hi Bob
I used a 2500 watt inverter, I don't need one that large but I wanted the extra insurance of over capacity. I bought my transfer switch from Progressive Dynamics, same brand as the power panel and converter. They are in Marshall Michigan just down the road from me. They have a "walk in the back door" service dept.that sells new and refurbished items at a savings. I was there last week to get a fuse for my converter that had failed due to vibration, nice people too! Here is a link for their transfer switch.
http://www.progressivedyn.com/prod_details/trans_relays/pd5110610.html
The transfer switch has one set of contacts that are normally closed so that the power from your plug in cord goes direct to your breaker panel just like it does now. When the transfer switch detects power from a different source it opens those normally closed contacts and closes the other set that have the input from your inverter (or generator) thus supplying power to the breaker panel. It is a two in and one out switch that works automatically. I have wired two of these into my coach, one for the generator and one for the inverter so that if I plug in, start the generator or turn on the inverter I have power to the wall outlets. I do run the fridge from the inverter when driving instead of using propane. I see that retail on these is about $80 now, mine were less.
Ask any questions you want, it is an easy hook up.
JerryT
The info you all provide on this site is awesome!
I'm looking into the inverter.
Thanks all!
All this info" When I was younger I used to do all this stuff and not bat an eye
Now as I have gotton older and the kids piss me off I am so scared to even try this
stuff.. Guess I will just have to have someone do it for me and pay them for the work..
It is Hell to get Old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! John
Hi Rob
I like my inverter. When we travel I turn on the inverter, just like at home the power is always on. I even leave it on at night when we dry camp to power my iridescent night lights and charge things. When it is cool out side we use it to power our dual control electric blanket (older non electronic model) instead of running the furnace all night. FYI, the newer electric blankets I have tried can not be powered with a square wave (cheaper) inverter, it burns up the control box, OOPS X2 :'( but it seems to run everything else just fine. I use an older twist knob microwave, I have read the the older the better as they are more durable. You can buy a pure sine wave inverter but they are a big buck item. If anyone else has inverter info for Rob please chime in!
JerryT
Hi Jerry, Is this invert set up something an automotive electrician can do easy..
I think I will just take the rig over to the guy down the street and have him do it..
John
I have found there are many items that you can not use on a modified, or clipped sine wave inverter. And you usually find out after its toooooo late and burn your item up.
I mounted my inverter underneath the seat that has the waterpump and the outlet for my generator. I have made a pig tail cable from my inverters i5 amp outlet to a 30 amp plug in that will accept my shore power plug.
Now all I have to do is either plug my shore power cord into the inverter, the generator or go to shore power. This eliminates the relay issue.
I would suggest you use size 1/0 to 4/0 welding cable from your house battery to your inverter. Yes, I know that may be over kill but you will never have any drop in current to worry about. The out put of the inverter should be at least 8 to 10 gauge wire.
Hard wiring an inverter is simple is you have the tools to run the wires.
Hi Mac
Good info!
I mounted my inverter to the bottom side of the plywood that the fridge sits on between it and the wheel well upside down, I didn't think it would care :D That made it close to the the house battery. My transfer switch is pop riveted to the back of the battery box. I think the advice to use 8 to 10 gauge wire on the output is great. I think I only used 12 gauge on mine. The next time I have it open I will upgrade it. I am using a 31 series deep cycle battery (just fits) with great success for my needs, one or two days here and there. It sure is nice to have the type of power you want when you need it!
JerryT
Ya know I read this stuff every night, and I have to hand it to you guys....
When I was a yougn man I would do stuff like that and not bat an eye.
mNow, I am an old fart like my son says and I am so afraid of trying thing like
what you are doing... My hat is off to you :) John
Hi JerryT
I Just received my transfer switch from Progressive Dynamics and am getting ready to revamp my electricals.I'm curious on how a inverter setup was wired to disable the converter during use.From what I read from past posts is that a relay was added to disable the converter?How did you accomplish this?The air conditioning breaker must also be tripped off but in my neck of the woods I normally won't use it much,so probably won't normally be on anyway but how was the converter disabled with a relay?Was it wired in the output to the converter and setup so it would only energize when shore power or generator power is available?I guess the fog hasn't cleared enough to picture how to do this.I'm also curious about the group 31 battery in the battery box.All I can fit in mine is a group 27 and it's a tight fit but maybe it has to do with chassis?as my Clipper is a Chev chassis and not the more common Dodge?Thanks for any info . Bob
Hi Bob
What I did on mine was to add a N.O. (normally open) relay that uses a 120 volt coil, I.E. it takes 120 volts to make the relay close. I connected the coil of the relay to the input side of the transfer switch that I use for shore/gen power. When the relay coil gets power it will close its contacts. These are the contacts that I used to switch the converter on and off. When you are not on shore/gen power (the relay is open/off) and turn on the inverter the transfer switch directs that power to your house panel and the relay gets no power (it is wired to the other side of the transfer switch) so the converter stays off. I bought my relay from a heating/cooling supply house and I made sure it was a continuous duty relay. I have my converter on a breaker all by its self. The output from that breaker then goes to the relay and from there it goes to the converter. As for the roof AC, I just don't turn it on when we use the inverter. Hope this helps, if you need more help we could call each other on the phone.
JerryT
Hi JerryT
Thanks for the reply.After reading it after about 3 times the fog began to clear and I think I've got it down in my mind.I'm going to use a double bank 2 way switch rated at 30 amp dc to switch between generator and inverter instead of a 2nd transfer switch to keep costs down.(Something I had sitting in the garage for years) and it should work great,just have to turn switch instead of auto transfer for the inverter or generator which will go to the autotransfer switch..Did you have any problem adding wires from the transfer switch over to the converter?I haven't checked to see if there is a underfloor cavity to run thru or not.It's been raining quite a bit lately and hasn't been inviting to crawl under to investigate.
How about the group 31 battery?The battery box on mine is awful tight and all it will fit is a group 27.With wing nuts on the battery posts and a metal box lining it is a little scary.I'm going to add a non-conductive ceiling piece to mine during the relay transfer switch update.Upgrade projects should keep me busy through the winter.I like your bumper tube mod and plan to do it to mine along with various other ideas that others have done to theirs.Thanks again. Bob
Hi Bob
The battery box in my clipper is NOT grounded, it is supported by the fiberglass body. My 31 series battery sets on the floor of the box and the terminals just miss, but they have touched the box before going in and out. Thats when I realized it was ok for them to touch (one at a time). I was waiting for that BIG spark flash bang but I lucked out ;) I use two transfer switches, one for shore/gen and the output from that one goes over to the other transfer switch on one side and my inverter on the other side and the output from that switch goes to my breaker box. My shore/gen transfer switch is mounted above my left rear wheel under the rear dinette seat. My other transfer switch is pop riveted to the back of my battery box, I get access to it by un-screwing my breaker box and laying it forward on the floor. My wires have enough slack to allow this. The floor between the two rear fender wells is hollow. I used the factory generator wire as a pull wire and pulled it out while pulling in new wires. I have added circuits to my coach this way. The way this coach was built makes it easy to work on IMHO. It sounds like your off to a good start, feel free to ask any questions, good electrical work is a #1 priority any place you sleep!
JerryT
Okay, here goes the dumb question(s) again. ;-)
I've read in a few places where some have problems with the house battery over charging and boiling out all the water when on shore power for extended periods. Last time I was out, I noticed my house battery wasn't holding a charge so when I got home, I checked it and sure enough, it needed water badly. I ended up using a little over half a gallon of distilled water to fill all the cells. Now I need to put a good charge on the house battery, that will happen this Wednesday.
My biggest question is: How do I avoid the overcharging? What do I check? How do I check it? I have the Party model with the rear kitchen & rear bath. I am still learning where everything is and now know where the house breaker/fuse panel is located. Is this where the converter is located as well? Do the house lights run off the battery even when I'm plugged in to shore power?
Does anyone have practical, easy to understand instructions/diagrams/pictures drawins with crayons? My email is: marjimjo@cox.net.
Hi Jim
On my 78 the power converter is attached to the back of my Progressive Dynamics panel. The best way to think about it, is that everything runs off the battery and the converter charges the battery. I know from my experience that the battery needs to be topped off about twice a year. If I don't then it gets low and (boils) keeps going lower even faster. I updated my converter to a modern one that I bought from P.D. (they are 20 mi up the road) This new one is supposed to charge better and help avoid water loss. I also went up one size in amperage since I now use a 31 series battery and have more lights and things installed. I leave mine plugged in all the time. If you lost that much water then a new battery is probably in your near future. You might also use a timer and charge your Clipper just a short time each day until you upgrade that converter or get good at adding water :D
JerryT
Thanks for the info JerryT!!! I am taking the cheap route first and getting good at adding water. I already have a table that adjusts to the right height for sliding the battery out easily. ;-)
Again, Thanks!
bought a new battery. Am still going to keep an eye on the water. But think replacing the old 2003 battery solved my problem - I hope. ;-)
I think you will be fine.
JerryT
I know it's been a few months since this thread was started, hashed and rehashed. But maybe one of you who've done this kept notes, took a few pictures, and are willing to help out an old fart. All of my electrical is working fine, especially after I replaced my battery. I have absolutely no complaints about how it works. HOWEVER, ;-) I am considering installing a or some solar panels. I have a 4000W Generator that I carry on a cargo carrier attached to the receiver on the back, but would like to be able to run my TV in the late evening without firing up old bessie. It would also be nice to be a little less dependent on fossile fuel while dry camping. I have a conceptual problem dealing with inverters and converters, visualising where and how to mount and wire them. I do understand electricity/electronics - but have this darn mental block on things like this. Pictures, drawings, third grade english. hahahahaha.... help?
You are NOT electrically challenged. That is MY claim to Clipper fame, and I don't appreciate you trying to steal it from me! ;D
I bow to the master... hahahahahah :D
Show me "Wash the Cripper"
Wax on Wax off
ha ha haha hehe hehnehe oh I am so bad
:)