Hi all -
My wife Tammy and I just purchased a '77 rear kitchen model and are already in the process of getting road-ready. Runs like a champ, but has a few issues to clear up just from sitting around most of it's life (61,000 miles on it). Entry area and rear sub floor has a fair amount of rot (victim of a leaky roof vent), and last few feet have what seems to be a slight "droop" (apparently not that uncommon for these units given the frame construction. Once we get the floor out and inspect it, it will be off to the welding shop for reinforcement and "fanny lift", and then new floors go in. Lots of work to do, but we are excited. We just finished a year of full-timing it in our 45' Teton 5th wheel, and are anxious to have an RV that we can actually hop in and use for FUN!
Checkbook in hand, will be joining the club ASAP to get access to all the great info you guys have here ;)
Ken Morgan
Welcome! When you send out your membership application, send me a PM and I'll get you upgraded to the National Club Member status on the forum so you can access the members-only Technical Forum.
When you're reinforcing the back end, check out the hitch also (if it has one). Many of the hitches were not properly installed (all aftermarket) and are not safe to tow anything or even hold a hitch cargo rack with 50lbs on it. Since you're back there reinforcing the chassis, it's a good time to get the hitch reinforced at the same time.
The clipper will be a lot cozier than your 5th wheel. :) But, I think you'll enjoy the versatility of it.
If you haven't done so, it's a good idea to check the fuel lines and propane lines for leaks and the propane regulator before you take off in it. If the fuel lines haven't been replaced, you can have pinhole leaks in them that affect your mileage, cause safety issues, etc. The propane lines are less likely to leak, but if it does, it can be a problem, as well as a non-functional regulator.
Thanks for the welcome! I'll be sending off our application on Monday, and look forward to our membership.
We definitely will take care of the hitch when the frame is worked over! Our fabricator is one of the best I've seen and I know he's going to make the back bullet proof. We are also planning to replace both the black and grey tanks, fresh water tank, propane tank and lines, all plumbing lines as well as all belts hoses and lines under the hood. After that, new appliances, tires, brakes, airbags and anything else that turns up during the rebuild. It'll be a job, but we are excited to do it and are grateful to have this great resource!
Thanks again!
Ken
Are you replacing everything just to "be safe" or are there actual problems with the tanks, etc.?
The water storage tanks have held up very well on the clippers and I can't recall anyone who's had to replace them just due to age. I think someone replaced one tank after he had a tire blowout and it damaged the tank.
We are replacing pretty much everything that could pose issues down the road since we will have a good portion of the coach pulled apart anyway. We figure there's a good chance the motorhome will.get handed down to one of our kids in the next few years, and want to make sure that everything that might need to be replaced is done while it's relatively easy...and we can afford it easier than they can. We've had issues with holding tanks in the past, and would much rather be proactive and go through it all now while they are dry and easy to get to :D
Thanks,
Ken
Hi Ken & Tammy,
Welcome To Clipper World ;)
You Are Right, These Clippers Are Great RV & The ACOC Is A Great Place To Help You With Problems That Have Come Up Over Many Years Of Still Rollin Down The Highways & By Ways. ;D
When You Get Your Membership Updated By Our Super Web Master, You Will Be Amazed On The Info Past & Present. I Try To Upload Photos, Time Permitting. Sometimes It Is Easier To Look @ A Photo To See Whats Up.. ???
I Left You A PM On What You E-Mailed Me.
How Long Have You Owned Your Clipper?
Joe & Denise
Hi Ken,
Make Sure You Come Up With A Name For Your Clipper, For Luck ;D
You May Want To Think Of A Name, My Clipper Is Named; " Wilson "
Most Wives Call Them 'Money Pits' :-*
Take Care & Again Welcome ;)
Joe & Denise
Hi Joe - thanks for the PM! We've only owned the Clipper for a week, but we've already started the tear-down process. Walking around it, it seems a bit overwhelming but we'll take it one step at a time. Over all, it's in solid shape...but there are a number of things that need attention! I'll feel better once the floor is done. It's a bit unnerving to pull out the original cabinetry and interior walls, but I'm sure when we are done it will be great. So far we have the rear kitchen cabinetry out, and tomorrow we pull out the bathroom wall and the wall immediately to the right side of the fridge). Looks like we need to pull all the flooring from the end of the chassis frame rails to the rear of the coach. It'll be a fun project for my wife and I to tackle...with a little help from our two grown sons ;D . Wish us luck!
As for a name, we're pondering it. Can't rush into something like that, but we are leaning toward "Tank"...after our late Chihuahua (he was little but had the heart of a lion ;) )
Ken
WOW! What an undertaking...hats off to you! It will be like a new rig with all the guts replaced and upgraded. By the time your finished...well be asking YOU the questions.!! And what a great way to aquaint yourself with the way the Clippers were built, and how to repair them. So nice to get to it all at once and know it's good to go.
And yes, fun too. Our Clipper has become one of my hobbies, a labor of love for sure.
I like "Tank". !
Welcome Ken, I'm looking forward to watching your project as it unfolds, and of course the finale'.!
...curious...where in Arizona are you?
Safe travels
Steve
Thanks Steve!
It's a bit daunting right now, but we've already jumped in with both feet. Spent the day tearing things down - we have the rear sub-floor, kitchen cabinet, water heater, toilet, shower and a couple interior walls out. Sub-floor definitely needed to be replaced. No water damage in the support framing under the floor, but most of the nail/screws/staples had worked loose and need some attention. Being a rear kitchen/bath, 90% of the water lines are now exposed, which will make replacing all of them pretty simple :) We should finish the tear-down tomorrow, and will be looking at a blank slate (or maybe just staring blankly, lol).
We are taking pictures as we go, and will work on putting them up.
Ken
Hi Ken,
I Agree With Steve Major Undertaking,
But When Finished, Will Be Great. ;D ;D
It's Great You Are Taking A Lot Of Photos, It Will Help Others, Who May Have Same Problem.
I Have Removed The Whole Kitchen Area, I Had A Good Sub Floor, I Removed All Those Small Draws, I Replace Frames That Held Old Draws, I Installed 4ea. 24" Slides, There Is A Cabinet Shop In Texas, That Made My Draws & Sells Draw Slides. Can Send You There Contact If You PM Your E-Mail,
I Went To Home Depot, To Get Top Counter Top, Had To Cut Off Back Splash & Resized.
Also, Install New 1/4 Turn Angle Water Supply Valves & Flex Hoses, New Low Profile Moen Kitchen Faucet.
On The Bathroom, Installed Corner Sink, Installed It Left Of Shower, & Relocated 2" Vent Pipe, To Give More Room In Bath Area.Used White Grained Plastic On Walls.
On The Under Carriage I Have Seen A Guy On His Clipper, He Added 1" X 8" Steel Plates From Rear Frame, Back To Cross Plate@ Hitch, He Cut 3 1/4" Hole For Waste Drain, Nice Super Strong & Only Used 3 ea. Plates Of Metal, When You Get Access To All Of Web Site There Are Some Support Drawing On Site, They Use A lot Of 2" Channel Iron Etc.
Hope You Are Able To Stop The Roof Leak, There Is Also, People Who Have Used Special Marine Sealant On Vents & Roof, I Have Always Used Dicor Products, Self Leveling White.
Well Good Luck, Waiting On Seeing End Product.
Joe & Denise
Whew - lots of work done over the last couple days. Finished tearing out the rear sub-floor, and initially thought the framing under the floor was in good shape. On closer inspection, half of it needed to be replaced due to water damage/dry rot. When all was over, all of the framing is new as well as sections of the galvanized sheet (last thing before you hit the outside). Unfortunately, the seller was less than honest with the "repairs" he had done to fix a roof leak. We had to drive through an Arizona monsoon to get to the MVD today, and in the process discovered a number of bonus leaks that we didn't even have to pay for (eye roll). So now, I have the rear ceiling out, and have started replacing the wood framing above the ceiling panels. The prime culprit in the leak is a poorly installed vent, but there are numerous pinholes in the fiberglass roof-cap that are also allowing water in. We have opted to fiberglass over the leaking roof vent/fan (it's the one right in the rear entry), and once that's done we will have the roof Rhino-lined. Still taking pictures, so hopefully once we are done we can put a pictorial explanation of all we have done up.
As for the mechanics, I went to the local parts store and picked up new hoses, belts, spark plugs, ignition wires, distributor cap and rotor, pcv valve, and all of the filters. Also got new tires all around (and discovered that upper and lower ball joints need to be replaced).
Yikes - when am I going to find time to mow the yard? This is turning into quite a project!
Ken
Wow, again!
And what could be possibly be mowing in ARIZONA !!?? Let the lawn go, the Clipper trumps all other work, besides the grass will just grow back anyway!!!
You have certainly attacked this full on, keep going, and please keep posting, and pics when you can.
Steve
I'd have a mechanic (preferably one who works on older vehicles a lot) relook at the ball joints. The tire shops don't always understand the difference between a properly functioning 1975 ball joint and a properly functioning 2000+ ball joint. When I replaced my tires, the tire shop said they needed to be replaced - my mechanic, my Dad (who worked on Dodge vehicles in the 70's for a living), and a second tire shop (where I now go to as my first choice) all said the ball joints are fine.
Thanks Toedtoes - good advice :) I took a look at the front end when they had it up on the lift, and the ball joints are definitely shot. In fact, there was so much lateral play in the tires once it was off the ground that we initially thought that it was the wheel bearings! Found a great guy here in town to do the work for me (I've already got so many projects I'm doing on the motor home that I'm glad to have someone else take care of this one).
So far we have the rear floor framing done, insulation installed and the sub floor back in from the entry to the bathroom doorway. Still working on re-plumbing everything, so can't put the bathroom sub floor back in. The bathroom floor was slightly higher than the rest of the floor to accommodate the original water lines, and I'm re-routing them to allow for the floor to be all the same height. We are also slightly widening the bathroom door (which will be changed to an accordion door), and converting the shower into a shelving/storage area. I pulled the aft ceiling panel down and completely re-worked the support framing (all of the wood around the fan/vent had been water damaged). I added a bit of additional framing, and am pretty close to being able to insulate and put a new ceiling panel up.
It's been challenging so far, but I'm excited to get it done and on the road!
Ken
Glad to hear you confirmed the ball joints. There is supposed to be SOME play with them, which confuses some tire shops like the one I used - they didn't want ANY play in the ball joints. Having a trustworthy shop is a wonderful thing.
I like the idea of replacing the shower with shelving. My plan is to add an outdoor shower setup to mine. That way I can hose off dogs, myself, gear, etc. Right now, I use the shower to store the canopy and the bird carrier and I hang my dirty laundry hamper in it. Works well for that, but some shelving might be nice.
Hi Ken,
See You Are Moving Forward On The Massive Rear Project.
Did You Have A 12Vdc Wire & Ground @ Vent Frame? If Not You May Want To Add Incase You Want To Put A 14" Fantastic 8000 3 Speed Fan Instead Of Regular 14" Vent Cover.
Also In Bath Room, I Re-Routed Drain Vent Line, To Give More Toilet Space, Also, The Reason The Floor Is Raised Was For Access To Water Lines.
I Added A Corner Sink & Removed Long Sink & Cabinet.
I Know Each Is Own, Hope You Are Able To Share Some Photos With Wall Coverings Off, Will Sure Help Other Clipper Owners Who May Have Same Problems.
Thanks, Joe
Hi Joe,
Yep - the wiring is there! Heading down into Phoenix tomorrow to pick up a few parts, including a new fan (we are up in the mountains east of Phoenix and don't have much in the way of RV supplies up here).
Was thinking about re-routing the vent in the bathroom - it's a good idea! Be nice to have a little more elbow room in there ;)
We certainly will share the photos we are taking. I sure would have liked to have a better idea what I would find before I started pulling apart floors, walls and ceilings!
Ken
Well, she's in the shop getting new ball joints, control arm bushings, steering gear box and brake rotors/pads. Once all the parts are in, it'll get aligned and we'll take her to the fabricator to get the frame rails extended and have new rear air bags and a dual exhaust system installed.
Now I have to take a little time off of the Clipper to get our 5th wheel ready to sell. Somehow I ended up with one too many RV's!
Ken
Quick update - once the shop was done, Tank had new ball joints, control arm bushings, steering gear box, power steering pump, and front brake rotors and pads. New alignment is done, and he is resting safely at the fabricator now awaiting the frame modifications. 70 mile trip to Phoenix in 100+ degree weather was hot, but uneventful (next project: air conditioning service!!!!)
Ken
Hi Ken,
Sounds Like Your Projects Are On Track ;) Have Not Done My Front End Yet, Have All The Parts To Do, It Is On The Wish List. Of Many To Do's.
How Was The Drivable After The New Work On Front End? Besides The Heat?
There Is A Few Of Us Are Working On Trying The Get Rid Of Some Of The Heat, I Have Installed A Hood Scoop On 'Wilson' Going Away For A Needed Outing, & Should Get A Good Test, Also Have Done Some Heat Sealing On Inside Of Doghouse & On Cab Flooring, & Have Covered Outside Of Doghouse, Installed Nice Pocket To Store GPS,Maps & Stuff. Also Wrapped Fuel Line Don't Want To Vapor Lock. So This Trip Should Give A Good Run, Will Check Closely MPG. Will Be Pulling Boat & Trailer So Will See.
Have You Been Able To Upload Any Photos Yet?
Good Luck Looking Forward In Seeing The Rear End Support?
Joe & Denise
Hi Joe -
Trip to PHX was fine. Lots of terrain to climb/descend between us and the Phoenix valley (we are up in Payson), but the Clipper did great. Heat from the doghouse is definitely an issue - looking at a number of solutions such as Dynamat, etc, but haven't gotten anything yet. The 440 did OK, but I wish it had a bit more "grunt". The late '70's tore the heck out out of compression levels and HP output on these motors, and short of a total rebuild there isn't much outside of carburation/exhaust that can be done to improve performance...but getting down to 50mph on grades isn't going to cut it for us. Going to have to figure out something ;) Anyway, heat from the doghouse was *BAD*. Going to do some serious research into heat/sound insulation ASAP. Looked at Dynamat and a few other sources - still deciding on the brand to go with (have to do something to save my right ankle!!). We have a snorkle on our Lexus SUV, and am thinking about installing something similar on the Clipper as a cold air intake. Still working on uploading pics (have to task my better half on that!)
Good luck on your trip!
Ken
Well, word from my fabricator wasn't good. His opinion of the engineering on the Clipper is less than flattering, and I have to say after talking with him I have to agree. The rear of the unit has sagged to the point that the rear is 3 inches out of plane with the rest of the floor. The best that they can do (and this is a top notch outfit) is to bring the rear up within 2" of plane, and reinforce it. The grey tank will need to be replaced with something smaller, as there is no way I will trust anything heavier than necessary hanging back there. The only thing holding up either of the water tanks are a few brackets attached through a couple of 2x4 supports...a seriously poor design, with literally no way to improve on it. However well the rest of the motorhome may have been designed, the engineering from the Dodge frame rails back is horrible - there is NO metal framework supporting the coach aft of the frame rails, and outside of major (and expensive) re-working, there is no way to rectify the issue. It is literally a failure waiting for a place to happen. Pretty disappointing.
From what I've heard and seen regarding class C manufacturing, this is standard. Few have extensive framework done beyond the end of the chassis. While it sounds awful, remember that these RVs have been driving the roads for 35to 40 years without those accidents happening.
The brackets to support the tanks is standard - some folks add straps to keep the tanks from dropping in the middle.
Hello,
I Have Seen Many Rear Supports Added To The Over Hang On Class C .
I Have Seen A Real Nice Set -Up At A RV Shop.
This Guy Had A 1978 Dodge Clipper.
He Had A Fab Shop Added A 1" Thick Plate X 8" Tall X 5 Foot Long On Both Sides Of Frame, On Left Side Plate He Had A 3 1/2" Hole Cut-Out For Tank ABS Pipe, Then He Had A Channel Iron Welded @ Rear, And Added A Welded Class 3 Hitch.It Supported Rear You Could Tow A House Behind His Clipper.
The Biggest Factor On Adding Rear Support Attachments Is To Remember, To Leave Access For Removal Of Black Water Tanks & Fuel Tank For Future Removal.
Joe
OK - It's been awhile, and we've covered a lot of ground in our Clipper. The rear sub-frame has been re-enforced and the floor framing aft of the rear entrance completely replaced, as well as the ceiling framing in the same area (more rot found after pulling panels off). All of the cabinetry has been removed and either replaced or refurbished. New kitchen counter top. The bathroom floor has been re-worked to be flush with the rest of the rear floor (much better than having a step-up into the bathroom, IMO). New toilet, new pex water lines. Considered new holding tanks, but upon inspection the existing tanks looked pretty good, so left them alone...may need to replace the grey-tank blade valve, but otherwise good. Shower area has been re-worked into a pantry. Hot water heater has been removed (set-up to be replaced if needed, but we don't foresee a need for it while we own it). All flooring has been replaced, and all existing upholstery is in the process of being replaced with appropriate colors. All ceiling and floor areas have been re-wired and insulated as appropriate. Over all, we are pleased with the outcome. We have a few things to finish up (the biggest of which is whether or not to do new upholstery), we will put updated pics up. As of now, we probably have the most renovated American Clipper on the planet :) Enjoy...we certainly will! Pics can be seen at http://imgur.com/a/8da7x
We still have a bit of trim work to do (corners, etc). Once done it should look pretty nice! Let us know what you think, and let us know if you have any questions.
Ken and Tammy Morgan
OK, a lot of ground has been covered since our last post. I have completely replaced a BUNCH of stuff...and that is an understatement. Pretty much everything from the right of the entry aft has been replaced - floor, ceiling and walls. New sub'floor, with necessary frame reinforcements, new floor and ceiling and floor framework, new pex water lines, new toilet, new propane lines, new pretty much everything. Shower was taken out and replaced with a pantry. Water heater was (temporarily) deleted since we had no need for hot water. All flooring and interior walls have been replaced. I'd replace the entry door if it wasn't so expensive.
This thing was a piece of crap when we started, and is way better now.
You can see a few pics of our progress at:
http://imgur.com/a/YpQaW
Hi Ken&Tammy,
You Real Did A Nice Job On Your Clipper :D
Sure Would Like To See A Few Photos, Of Rear Under Carriage On Your Rig.
That Was A Real Weak Point On Dodge & Chevy Clippers,
These Units Were On Maxi Vans. Would Have Been Nice If They Would Have Beefed Up From Factory.
I Know The Chevy Chassis Van Models, It's A Must To Support The Rear, :-[If You Plan To Tow Anything.
It's Nice To Have A Rig That Is Made For Your Needs.
What Was The Reason To Remove Shower & Water Heater? Is It For Extra Storage? And Is It Able To Put In If You Ever Sell It? I Use My Shower A lot, I Go Fishing & Camping In The High Country, Shower Sure Feels Great After A Day Or Two Of Smelly Fishing.
Thanks For Sharing Your Venture, Looks Real Nice,
Joe & Denise
I'm curious about the water heater and stove elimination. I'm taking it you are only staying at full hookup locations and will be using the microwave or toaster oven for all your cooking.
I took mine camping this weekend in the rain. I really liked being able to wash my hands and face in hot water without having to run through the rain to the campground restrooms.
I am pleasantly surprised how much you did keep to the original layout. I was a bit concerned at first with your talk of gutting it. But, it definitely has retained the "clipper feel". :)
Hey Toed -
We eliminated the shower because I just couldn't see myself or my wife ever showering in such a tiny space. Hot water heater was deleted temporarily due to no shower, but hookups are all there for future use. I considered utelizing n external LP water heater, should the need arise. Honestly though, we have no plans to use the Clipper without access to full hookups, and have set it up well for the potential hunter rig (lots of them here). It really does feel every part the vintage Clipper, but with a bit of modern flare. Not sure what the future holds for our rig...we really don't need it, nor do our kids at this point. I'm looking at it more as a learning experience now than anything...and I have learned A LOT. It may be for sale before long...not sure, but it's just sitting in the garage for now...
Any updates on your Clipper?